The Smart Money: FR-S Vs Cayman S Comparison by Car and Driver

[pyro530]

The Smart Money

Car and Driver puts the FR-S and a few other cars up against more expensive "similar" cars.

It’s rotten what we’re doing, and we admit it. Totally rotten and unfair and, well, maybe just a little bit un-American. We’re taking the most enthralling new sports car in a generation—my God, it’s actually affordable!—and throwing it under the galloping hooves of a semi-exotic thoroughbred that most of us here couldn’t afford even if we never move out of our parents’ basements.

(See, we’re saving you the trouble of writing this stuff in letters.)

By whatever strange forces create unlikely allies, Toyota and Subaru got together and gave our kind a gift: a rear-drive sports coupe with a 2700ish-pound curb weight and the reflexes of a kit fox. It has exactly enough seats and trunk space to make it halfway practical, and they didn’t even louse up the styling. We should be sending love letters and boxes of chocolates to Japan for the $25,092 Scion FR-S (and its sister car, the Subaru BRZ) instead of throwing it against a $76,560 Porsche Cayman S. Yes, we are ungrateful wretches, and we know it.


But with these asymmetrical comparison tests we hope to determine, semi-scientifically, whether a glass is indeed half-full or half-empty. It is not meant to be a buyers guide, as we assume the buyers of these two cars don’t get invited to the same pool parties. Rather, we want to see how big a factor price is with these two sports cars whose goals are essentially the same: to spread pavement-sucking, boxer-engine joy.


While Porsche is busy having kittens with Volkswagen—the product pipeline holds the Macan small SUV, the 918, an Audi R8–based bridge car between the 911 and the 918, and possibly a front-engined GT—the Cayman has been the keeper of the old flame. At 3034 pounds and with its engine amidships, the 320-hp S feels like what the ballooning 911 used to be: light, simple, small, intimate, and less about looking rich than being really quick (though the Cayman manages both).

Typical of Porsche, there are myriad options on the Cayman’s price list, but our car had mostly the highlights: the $3640 Bose super stereo/navigation, a $2230 Convenience package, Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) for $2090, the $1550 Carrera S II wheels, a limited-slip differential for $950—which seems oddly cheap when you pay $710 just for the Aqua Blue paint—plus some other stuff.

In contrast, the FR-S came to us as naked as a newborn, augmented by only a $95 trunk mat and $67 wheel locks. Coincidentally, the cheapest option available on a Cayman S is $95: a leather key pouch to match the car’s interior.

In case you’ve been held hostage by Mennonites this past year, the FR-S and the BRZ are both being produced on the same line at Subaru’s Gunma factory in Japan. Scion is shooting for a younger buyer, hence the FR-S has a lower price than the BRZ.

So, unlike the BRZ, there is only one FR-S trim level, and it doesn’t offer some of the BRZ Limited’s niceties—namely navigation, automatic climate control, a keyless engine-start button, and some fancy toggle switches. The 2.0-liter flat-four with its dual port/direct-injection system is common to both cars, as are most of the other specifications, absolutely none of which are bad.

But is the Porsche worth three times the Scion’s price? It’s not our money, so it doesn’t really matter what we say, but like Congress, that’s never stopped us before.
It’s so unfair. We love this car, but management doesn’t allow ties for first in a two-car comparison [or any comparison—Ed.]. Perhaps you can understand that.

The FR-S is just a bowl of ice cream with a stick shift. No car since the original Mazda Miata has made an empty cloverleaf as enjoyable or an end-run around loafing traffic as fun. You don’t even need to go fast. The 200-hp FR-S is low and small and makes 60 mph feel like Mach 1.7, so it may be just the cure for a spotty driving record.

Reasons to not buy a sports car get eliminated one by one in the FR-S. Everybody seems to fit in the manfully bolstered bucket seats, and the rear seatback folds to extend cargo space. We got 21 mpg even though the days were hot, the driving was hard, and there was plenty of idling for photography. All that interior noise and ride harshness you expect as payment for your fun is absent. The FR-S is quieter than the Cayman and doesn’t slam or crash on the rough stuff.


Front-brake-caliper positions mirror engine locations.
Some credit goes to the narrow, fuel-economy-minded Michelin Primacy tires. They serve the FR-S driver admirably around town even if they get slippery at the extremes. Putting power down on a drag strip and holding the line through a hairpin, in other words. Were you able to launch the FR-S closer to its lofty 6400-rpm torque peak without the tires losing traction, the 0-to-60-mph time (6.4 seconds) would undoubtedly be quicker.

The 200 horsepower seems adequate until you take the FR-S on mountain roads. Trying to keep up with the Cayman, we ran for a full 30 minutes across a high ridge with the engine yowling in third gear at 6000 rpm. Well, at least you know it is durable. But it’s not a mezzo-soprano at that speed, more like a mezzo-econo.

There’s really nothing wrong with the FR-S except that it suffers from the curse of affordability. It seems a teeny bit dowdy inside compared with the top-spec BRZ. The rotary knobs are ordinary, and the radio looks ill fitting and out of place, as if it’s just passing through from some other vehicle. Nor is the Pioneer unit very easy to operate.


To point out flaws in handling seems highly unsportsmanlike, considering the car it was driven against, but there are some. Those skinny tires squeal and squirm when pressed, and it’s the rear that breaks grip first. Think twice, maybe three times, before switching off the stability control, as it’s very easy to get sideways in an FR-S. The damping is also a bit loose—that great ride, remember—allowing the body to pogo a bit as you set up for your hero’s appointment with the apex. One test driver called the FR-S “spastic.”

More kindly, the FR-S is a full-employment opportunity for aftermarket tuners, who will be happy to make it as whistlingly boosted and rock-rigid unbearable as your wallet will allow. In the meantime, you have a fantastic everyday sports car. Glass more than half-full, we’d say.

So why does the Porsche take first? Because it’s just so—what’s the word? Maybe there isn’t one word, which is why Steve McQueen didn’t talk through that whole movie in which he was driving a powder-blue Porsche.

The Cayman S is McQueen, the pit clock at Le Mans, a grumpy genius in Gmünd, and an entire nation obsessed with closing the gap between reality and perfection baked into one little sports car that would probably engender world peace were it found in every single parking space.

Okay, maybe that’s a stretch, but the Cayman S is a heartthrob, and the world is a happier place for its existence. Sure, it’s exorbitantly priced, and Porsches haven’t always been quite so out there, especially when the mostly Volkswagen 914 was priced nearly the same as the Datsun 240Z. Nowadays, the base price of the Cayman S is more than twice the entry price of the Scion.


The cars’ similarities are uncanny, right down to their steering wheels and windshield rakes.
Porsche hasn’t always justified its premiums but does here. One effortless zing to the 7400-rpm redline (same as the *Scion’s), and you get it. This is a flat engine that sounds anything but flat. Or mass-produced. Or anything but a machine made by maniacs for precision and form. What’s that worth? To us, a lot.

The last hurrah for Porsche hydraulic-assist steering (already the new 911 and Boxster have gone electric) reminds us of  how it used to be: a ticker tape of pulsing road data. The 911 is too grown-up for all that racer stuff now, but the Cayman S isn’t. Not yet.

The Cayman is always squat and settled and usually more capable in a corner than its driver. Locating the engine in front of the rear axle probably helps. More-expensive rubber and cross-drilled brakes as well as lighter materials in the super-lubricated suspension preserve its neutrality and *confidence at higher speeds. A firmer structure—perhaps packed with gold sovereigns—dampens vibrations and hushes door slams to a meatier thunk. In every way, you feel the extra dollars delivering.


Well, except one or two places. Unless you drop even more coin on a leather-upholstered dash and doors, the plain plastic units look a little too Korean. And the cable-linked shifter feels more like a bungee-linked shifter. The FR-S’s brake pedal is firmer, even if the result of standing on it is less impressive.

The expensive PASM delivers a mellower ride when set to “comfort” than the Cayman’s base suspension does; only push “firm” if you want to ruin it. In “sport,” the S’s body motions become sharply stunted, but that doesn’t make this Porsche feel any more stable in turns. And our particular test car, which was nearly new, suffered a strange clutch-engagement problem that prevented us from extracting the engine’s full performance. Porsche replaced the clutch and all was good, the S delivering on the promise of its price by taking just 4.5 seconds for 60 mph and 13 seconds flat for the quarter-mile.

Alas, we’ve hit upon an old stalemate, like the argument about which is better, a Casio or a Rolex. In this case, we’d be unfaithful to all that car enthusiasts worship if we said that the Porsche doesn’t earn its higher price. And if you can’t pay it, feel lucky to live in a time when there’s such a superb alternative that’s affordable.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

[Sigh-on-Rice]

I don't understand why they compared it to Cayman "S with wheel upgrade".
It would've been more interesting if they compared it to a base Cayman.
Still interesting though.

[Bristecom]

They didn't go into much detail about the driving differences but it sounds like the FR-S has a little bit looser handling and less steering wheel feedback (compared to hydraulic power steering). But the FR-S has a better manual transmission, clutch, and brake pedal feel. And obviously the Porsche has more power and a better sounding engine. But I don't think most of us can afford or justify spending 3x the price of an FR-S on one. And to be honest, I'd still rather have an FR-S for the extra space/convenience of fold down rear seats, and easier/cheaper maintenance. But yes, there's no denying the greatness of Porsche. However, they do seem to be getting more and more expensive...

[whaap]

I subscribe to Car and Driver and I really got a chuckle out of the article because of all the cars on the road, if I really let myself go ballistic I'd buy a Cayman. But, I won't let myself spend that kind of money. Besides there's no way any car, I don't care what, could give me three or four times the pleasure I get out of driving my FR-S.

[pyro530]

My favorite line from the article:

It’s so unfair. We love this car, but management doesn’t allow ties for first in a two-car comparison [or any comparison—Ed.]. Perhaps you can understand that.

[st162celica]

Originally Posted by Sigh-on-Rice

I don't understand why they compared it to Cayman "S with wheel upgrade".
It would've been more interesting if they compared it to a base Cayman.
Still interesting though.

It's because the FRS would have won. Nothing else explains why they put the options on the Cayman. Or Porsche gave it to them like that on purpose.

Either way, Cayman like sports car for a 3rd of the price, you've got to be happy with that.

[Infernal]

they keep mentioning the engine is mid-mounted in the porka, i thought it was a rear-engined car :S is that just the 911??

[NOHOME]

I could afford a Cayman, but I could never afford to enjoy it; for me a car has to be disposable, in that if I screw up and wad it into a little ball, I can afford to walk to the dealer and buy a new one without involving an insurance company or bank. Its like having two bullets in your gun rather than one.

The FRS fits this bill, the Porshe, no so much.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Infernal

they keep mentioning the engine is mid-mounted in the porka, i thought it was a rear-engined car :S is that just the 911??

The Cayman is mid-engine -- the engine is mounted ahead of the rear axle, basically where the rear seats would be. Hence the Cayman lacks rear seats, whereas the rear-engine 911 has them (barely).

Actually one of the things I enjoyed most about driving the Cayman S was hearing the engine noise coming from directly behind you.

[GoSharks]

Originally Posted by whaap

I subscribe to Car and Driver and I really got a chuckle out of the article because of all the cars on the road, if I really let myself go ballistic I'd buy a Cayman. But, I won't let myself spend that kind of money. Besides there's no way any car, I don't care what, could give me three or four times the pleasure I get out of driving my FR-S.

+1, I would love to own a Cayman, but it is just too hard for me to justify the cost (purchase price, insurance, and to maintain it)

[empower-auto]

If you look at the price difference between the FR-S and the Cayman S ..

Add:

HKS Supercharger
Header-back system of your choice
KW V3 or similar suspension.
Cusco braces
17/18" lightweight wheels with good spec tires

You've spent under 15K on top of the base price and you're rolling in a car that you actually can compare to the Cayman S in a heads-up manner.

[was385]

Originally Posted by st162celica

It's because the FRS would have won. Nothing else explains why they put the options on the Cayman. Or Porsche gave it to them like that on purpose.

Either way, Cayman like sports car for a 3rd of the price, you've got to be happy with that.

There's no such thing as a base porsche. Walking through a dealership and looking at the window stickers is hysterical. I'd guess that most of the options are pretty much ubiquitous. Our family has a used 911 s and while there's no question that it's significantly more fun to drive than my BRZ, it's not over three times the amount of fun to drive (and that was the used price). Bottom line for me though, is I'm happy there are such great cars in the Porsche price range and happy that Toyobaru have created one in the BRZ/FRS price range. Great for car guys.

[Turbowned]

The Cayman S costs 3 times as much but is it really 3 times better overall? Not in my opinion. A good used Cayman S can be had for about $40k (meaning low mileage, maintained with full service records, not some auction special with 60+k miles and no history for $30k), so that makes a compelling argument. $40k is still out of my price range and I refuse to buy a sketchy Porsche for less. Plus the early Caymans are known for IMS bearing failures, so if I bought one that hadn't had an upgraded bearing installed, I'd want to get it done right away, meaning the engine would have to come out and that's gonna be $2-3k in parts/labor right off the bat.

They sure are great cars if you can afford them. I just can't

Someday...

[Guff]

[madoka]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

The Cayman S costs 3 times as much but is it really 3 times better overall?

As an owner, I'll say this. The reasoning in the article and this thread is misrepresentative, because you have to buy the FR-S at pretty much MSRP, but the Cayman S is often discounted up to $20,000. Thus if you do a TRUE cost to cost comparison, the Cayman is really much closer to being twice as expensive as the FR-S, and not three times. That's still a lot, but it's exaggerated in the article because they are not taking into account street prices.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by madoka

As an owner, I'll say this. The reasoning in the article and this thread is misrepresentative, because you have to buy the FR-S at pretty much MSRP, but the Cayman S is often discounted up to $20,000. Thus if you do a TRUE cost to cost comparison, the Cayman is really much closer to being twice as expensive as the FR-S, and not three times. That's still a lot, but it's exaggerated in the article because they are not taking into account street prices.

Really? I didn't know they "discounted" Caymans. Not being sarcastic, I'll just never be in the market for one...well maybe in 10 years.

[chantaiman51]

There is no such thing as spending three times the money to get three times the fun in any hobby/object/toy. You are not doing grocery shopping here. In this case, if you have $25k to spend on a fun car, then you buy the FRS. If you have $75k, then the CS is the more attractive choice. Both cars are the best choice in their own price category. It's absurb to say its smarter to buy the FRS over the CS.

For people who say or just try to rationalize that they can "afford" to buy the CS but chose not to do so becuase of "smart" money management or hard to justify the cost. Forget it, you simply can't afford it, just plain and simple.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by chantaiman51

For people who say or just try to rationalize that they can "afford" to buy the CS but chose not to do so becuase of "smart" money management or hard to justify the cost. Forget it, you simply can't afford it, just plain and simple.

Explain that one, starting from how much wealth and/or net income (or whatever metrics you want) you need to be able to "afford" a CS. Should be interesting...

[86'd]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Explain that one, starting from how much wealth and/or net income (or whatever metrics you want) you need to be able to "afford" a CS. Should be interesting...

I think he might get off on a technicality.

I think a lot of people, maybe even on this board, can't "afford" the FR-S. Sure they're making payments, but the difference is not affordability, it's attainability. People make it work and that has a large part to do with how easy it is to get a loan.

I could "afford" a leased Cayman S @ about 1K a month. But it would be pretty stupid to do.

Personally I would have to make at least $150K a year to barely afford/buy and eventually own a Cayman. That's assuming around 2500 a month including payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. And that's also assuming that my wife either has her car paid off or has a significantly cheaper car.

Also with a Cayman or any other luxury car in general, things are that much more expensive and my budget reflects that.

But again my wife and I aren't rich my any means but I could sure finagle my finances to put a Cayman in my driveway, but it doesn't really mean I can afford it.

[chantaiman51]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Explain that one, starting from how much wealth and/or net income (or whatever metrics you want) you need to be able to "afford" a CS. Should be interesting...

First thing first, you have to determine whether the CS is your DD primary car or weekend toys/garage queen. If it's a DD meaning you will use the car for going to work, directly or indirectly useful for your work environment that favors/requires nice car, (law firm/management/medical office/real estate/high end retail business, etc...) then you can apply the often quoted 20% rule for car purchase. There are minor variations of this rule, but my interpretation is the following:

Let say the total purchase price of the CS is $80k. The monthly payment with interest on a 48 month loan with 20% down payment is $1400. Gas/insurance/maintenance is roughly at $300 a month. So to find out how much annual income you'll need to afford the CS, you will just use $1700 X 12 months / 20% = $102k.

If the CS is going to be just a weekend toy/garage queen, its going to be alot simpler. Ask yourself three questions:

1. Is your primary residence paid off?
2. Do you have extra $80k sitting in the bank?
3. Is wife okay about the purchase?

If all three answers are yes, then you can afford a CS.

[Zaggeron]

Originally Posted by 86'd

I think he might get off on a technicality.

I think a lot of people, maybe even on this board, can't "afford" the FR-S. Sure they're making payments, but the difference is not affordability, it's attainability. People make it work and that has a large part to do with how easy it is to get a loan.

I could "afford" a leased Cayman S @ about 1K a month. But it would be pretty stupid to do.

Personally I would have to make at least $150K a year to barely afford/buy and eventually own a Cayman. That's assuming around 2500 a month including payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. And that's also assuming that my wife either has her car paid off or has a significantly cheaper car.

Also with a Cayman or any other luxury car in general, things are that much more expensive and my budget reflects that.

But again my wife and I aren't rich my any means but I could sure finagle my finances to put a Cayman in my driveway, but it doesn't really mean I can afford it.

Well put. I think the sense of "afford" at work here is one of "would not require a substantial change in your standard of living". If you have to start eating Top Ramen and Mac & Cheese, stop going to the movies or put off redecorating, then you can't afford it in this sense.

On the other hand, if the extra money in payments or the removal of the money from your bank account is not hugely significant -- not necessarily insignificant since 75k is a significant chunk of money to a lot of folk who can afford a Cayman S -- then you can probably "afford" it.

[Turbowned]

Well, all I know is that there's at least one guy who traded a Cayman R for a BRZ, meaning they could afford it, but decided to take the extra money and use it for something else (in his case, racing budget). I think if I could afford a Cayman R I'd probably do the same. What I wouldn't give for even a small club racing budget - I'd race a Spec Mazda 2 if I could!