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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:37 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by srt4evah View Post
You might want to start with the correct numbers. The Evo X GSR makes 291hp, and 300lb/ft of torque, that's more than double the FR-S. It's NOT peaky power either, it makes over 85% of it's peak torque from 3000-6000RPMs, and peak HP is at 6500RPMs. Boost tapers off, but power does not, because the RPMs are rising.

Anyway, to use your own math:

Evo X
3515lbs / by 291hp = 12.07 lbs per hp

FR-S
2758lbs / by 200hp = 13.79 lbs per hp

To match the Evo X in lbs/hp, the FR-S would need another 30hp, but when did we start talking about mods? For $400 you can tune a completely stock Evo X for another 50hp, no parts needed... let's not go there.

I won't argue with you that they're close, but the power/weight in the FR-S is still just 87% of the Evo X. For $1500 you could probably get make that difference up, no argument there, and still spend a lot less than the Evo X is new. I'm only saying they're not equal...

And with all that said, I'm pretty close to selling the Evo X to buy an FR-S. And I am pretty certain I won't regret it.
Sorry was using the JDM spec hp. I just don't see the point when I say they're close why that makes people think I said exact and begin to argue seriously? It's like evos are on some pedestal and nothing comes close or else your lying!!

That's really dumb. My point for showing power to weight math is that people are saying the evo is SO MUCH faster when in reality it's not. Furthermore trap speeds are in no way indicative of actual power to weight. The fact that the trap speed quote had so much deviation how is it even possible to use that as anywhere close to being accurate.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:02 PM   #46
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I've driven a stock Evo IX and it didn't really blow me away. Granted, they respond better to mods than almost any car on the market, and I know they can be insane performance machines, but compared to a 2006 STi I drove, I'd pick the STi, stock vs stock.
That's weird. I've driven numerous examples of both, and the STI understeers a lot, in comparison. That's not to take away from it, it's a great car, but like I said you're not going to see it in any Best Handling Car competitions.

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That's really dumb. My point for showing power to weight math is that people are saying the evo is SO MUCH faster when in reality it's not. Furthermore trap speeds are in no way indicative of actual power to weight. The fact that the trap speed quote had so much deviation how is it even possible to use that as anywhere close to being accurate.
I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but what in your opinion would constitute a car being "so much faster" or not? I don't want to play the numbers game but the performance specs and lap times of the two cars are likely going to be very different... even though the satisfaction from behind the wheel will be above average for either car.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:46 AM   #47
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That's weird. I've driven numerous examples of both, and the STI understeers a lot, in comparison. That's not to take away from it, it's a great car, but like I said you're not going to see it in any Best Handling Car competitions.


I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but what in your opinion would constitute a car being "so much faster" or not? I don't want to play the numbers game but the performance specs and lap times of the two cars are likely going to be very different... even though the satisfaction from behind the wheel will be above average for either car.
I'll definitely give you understeer in the STi, moreso than the Evo. The engine is mounted further forward in the STi, being longitudinal, so it's got that extra front overhang that causes pretty unappealing turn-in understeer.

But to me it felt a little more solid, a little less cheap, and you could feel the bigger engine at play there. I think for a race car, I'd take the Evo, but for a DD or racy street car, I'd have to go STi. Stuff like exhaust note and power curve and interior quality push me toward the STi, even knowing the Evo will outperform it when the mods start rolling in. The Evo's power was pretty far up top and the turbo lagged a little bit more than I'd want. Granted they both have some lag, and they have great power/torque, the Evo's was always a little harder to reach.

Stock vs stock these cars are basically identical in terms of end-of-the-day track figures imo. At least they're as close as it gets, depending on which has the better tires that day (Evo comes with some pretty nutso summer treads).
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #48
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I'll definitely give you understeer in the STi, moreso than the Evo. The engine is mounted further forward in the STi, being longitudinal, so it's got that extra front overhang that causes pretty unappealing turn-in understeer.

But to me it felt a little more solid, a little less cheap, and you could feel the bigger engine at play there. I think for a race car, I'd take the Evo, but for a DD or racy street car, I'd have to go STi. Stuff like exhaust note and power curve and interior quality push me toward the STi, even knowing the Evo will outperform it when the mods start rolling in. The Evo's power was pretty far up top and the turbo lagged a little bit more than I'd want. Granted they both have some lag, and they have great power/torque, the Evo's was always a little harder to reach.

Stock vs stock these cars are basically identical in terms of end-of-the-day track figures imo. At least they're as close as it gets, depending on which has the better tires that day (Evo comes with some pretty nutso summer treads).
I agree with a lot of that, even though my personal preference was to get the opposite car (which I've owned two of). It's interesting how similar the cars are on paper in terms of their actual specs and performance specs, yet the driving experiences are very different. Some people love the stronger bottom-end torque of the STI, and some people love the better top-end power of the Evo. I actually have more close friends with STIs than Evos (not counting random people who I've met at meets and know them by their usernames), and we can go on all day long about it.

The interior of the STI definitely "looks" better, but a lot of the important stuff that you touch on a constant basis has a slight edge in the Evo, from the steering wheel (pretty similar though) to the seats (far superior) to the shifter (which felt a bit better, as the STI's shifter always felt "loose" to me). But again, the rest of the interior can be an eyesore at times. I remember when I got my first Evo in early 2006, I took a girl to the movies, and the first thing she asked was, "If this is a new car, how come this part [pointing at the head unit and HVAC] looks like that?" As much as I could justify it to myself, I knew that it wouldn't matter to her. But she did like the seats though!
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:11 AM   #49
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I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but what in your opinion would constitute a car being "so much faster" or not? I don't want to play the numbers game but the performance specs and lap times of the two cars are likely going to be very different... even though the satisfaction from behind the wheel will be above average for either car.
Thank you, that's all I'm trying to say. "close" is a subjective measure of course, but to me, that means fractions of a second, or that either car could win in any given situation, all things being equal. That's not the case, the Evo is faster in any race situation or condition.

And trap speeds ARE the definitive measure of power to weight, short of an actual dyno. The fact that they vary has more to do with specific power available under various weather conditions, but the variance over a large sample will be consistent and give you the consistent view of what the power to weight ratio in fact is.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:05 PM   #50
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I agree with a lot of that, even though my personal preference was to get the opposite car (which I've owned two of). It's interesting how similar the cars are on paper in terms of their actual specs and performance specs, yet the driving experiences are very different. Some people love the stronger bottom-end torque of the STI, and some people love the better top-end power of the Evo. I actually have more close friends with STIs than Evos (not counting random people who I've met at meets and know them by their usernames), and we can go on all day long about it.

The interior of the STI definitely "looks" better, but a lot of the important stuff that you touch on a constant basis has a slight edge in the Evo, from the steering wheel (pretty similar though) to the seats (far superior) to the shifter (which felt a bit better, as the STI's shifter always felt "loose" to me). But again, the rest of the interior can be an eyesore at times. I remember when I got my first Evo in early 2006, I took a girl to the movies, and the first thing she asked was, "If this is a new car, how come this part [pointing at the head unit and HVAC] looks like that?" As much as I could justify it to myself, I knew that it wouldn't matter to her. But she did like the seats though!
lol

She probably liked the boost too.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:40 PM   #51
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wow this has spun way out of control. I am not even going to comment on ALL the things that have been discussed but there is a lot of false info on evo's being thrown out there. i would like to keep this thread to the simple start that i had it on or ask the monitors to just lock it before someone gets beat up over the internet lol
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:26 AM   #52
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But with the X, I think that from certain angles you won't immediately notice the difference between an Evo and the standard Lancer trim levels in motion (especially since the standard Evo GSRs all had that same tiny wing available on the Lancers) unless you're either really looking at it or you just know Mitsubishis.
I totally agree with this...Last year we traded the wife's 03 Evo in on an 11 GTS model. The loss of power and handling was noticeable but MPG was more of a factor and side by side they look so similar it just made sense to save money. She says it's sporty enough for her...but I did recently discover a picture of the BRZ as the wall paper on her phone, need to start hiding my keys.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:40 AM   #53
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I never owned or driven an evo,but when researching, the evo x interior still seems only slightly better than the frs, which made my decision easier. Now that i've had the frs for a month, the best description is the frs/brz is a poor mans lotus. It handles that good
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:41 AM   #54
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I totally agree with this...Last year we traded the wife's 03 Evo in on an 11 GTS model. The loss of power and handling was noticeable but MPG was more of a factor and side by side they look so similar it just made sense to save money. She says it's sporty enough for her...but I did recently discover a picture of the BRZ as the wall paper on her phone, need to start hiding my keys.
Any particular reason behind trading in the 2003 Evo for a 2011 GTS? Or was it just time for a new car?
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:12 PM   #55
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I never owned or driven an evo,but when researching, the evo x interior still seems only slightly better than the frs, which made my decision easier. Now that i've had the frs for a month, the best description is the frs/brz is a poor mans lotus. It handles that good
I will say that the interior of the BRZ Limited is more upscale than even the Evo X MR Touring's interior, which is pretty decent in itself with it being all-leather, but again, everything else looks nicer in the BRZ. But when talking about the BRZ Premium (and FR-S, since the interiors are nearly identical), then the Evo X has the edge.

However, the leather/alcantara material used in the Evo X MR (non-Touring) is mediocre and was a step down from the leather/alcantara used in the Evo IX. It's a trend between the two... from the wing no longer being carbon fiber to the interior being better looking than before but using cheaper materials all around, particularly on the steering wheel, seats and even the shift boot.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:20 AM   #56
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What a tornado of a week it has been, provking folks , attracting babes and praying i dont get pulled over.

I Have eneded my love affair with Acura and feel right at home..

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Old 09-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #57
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Any particular reason behind trading in the 2003 Evo for a 2011 GTS? Or was it just time for a new car?
Sadly the EVO was sideswiped, the car was still operational and mostly cosmetic (although they were close to totalling it) so the body shop put it back together. With just over 200K miles and a fresh coat of paint it was primo time to sell so we did.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:38 PM   #58
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Let's take this back to evo x vs brz for the people who are on the fence still.

From my research. Both car has their share of problems. Evo stock clutch, fuel starvation.. brz with CEL and engine sounds.

For the owners of both cars: how much harder does the evo pull. Do you miss it in the brz?

For just daily driving fun...brz or evo?

Fuel? I heard the Evo's fuel consumption is just comical if you push it. How far compare to a brz.

Finally. Evo (at least the current form) is going away. Will this be a problem In a long run? Can I still find places to service the ayc or ACD?
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:46 PM   #59
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Fuel? I heard the Evo's fuel consumption is just comical if you push it. How far compare to a brz.
A lot of people seem to be reporting very good fuel economy in the FR-S/BRZ. A lot of people are averaging ~28 mpg overall, and there was another thread where someone mentioned that throughout some road trip, their average was around 34 mpg.

The Evo, on the other hand, won't get anywhere near to that. Do you remember how in Back to the Future III the train operator was saying with the most ideal conditions possible, the train could hit 80 mph? It's like that for the Evo X getting 28 mpg (without being modded or tuned in a manner that would create better fuel economy). Pushing it will get you well into the mid-teens.

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Finally. Evo (at least the current form) is going away. Will this be a problem In a long run? Can I still find places to service the ayc or ACD?
It's odd that you're not aware of this, seeing how you're in California. Anyway, even if the Evo ends up being out of production, it's not as if Mitsubishi is going to vanish (or at least we hope not, even though the vast majority of their lineup sucks). Dealerships will still be able to service the cars (though make sure you pick the right one) since it's not as if Evos will disappear (as they will still need service), but there are a lot of specialty shops that are capable of servicing them (i.e. RRE and some other places).
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
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Let's take this back to evo x vs brz for the people who are on the fence still.

From my research. Both car has their share of problems. Evo stock clutch, fuel starvation.. brz with CEL and engine sounds.

For the owners of both cars: how much harder does the evo pull. Do you miss it in the brz?

For just daily driving fun...brz or evo?

Fuel? I heard the Evo's fuel consumption is just comical if you push it. How far compare to a brz.

Finally. Evo (at least the current form) is going away. Will this be a problem In a long run? Can I still find places to service the ayc or ACD?
The Evo clutch is perfect until you push the tq over 350 or so and there is no fuel starvation.

My Evo is 391hp/392tq and pulls like a bat out of hell. I do miss it, I do not miss the stg 4 clutch. I don't drive the Evo everyday.

DD fun, I LOVE the BRZ and walk right past the Evo everyday with no remorse. The brz is modded to but still only like 180hp-ish

Both cars eat fuel if you push them. The brz just starts with better mileage.

For the millionth time the Evo isn't going anywhere. There is only rumors that the motor will even change. There is a rumor that it will go hybrid diesel. There is a rumor for electric/gasoline motor, one running front wheels one runnin the back. Everything at this point is a rumor except that the Evo will NOT Be going away.

You will have no problem then or now getting repairs.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:21 PM   #61
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For the owners of both cars: how much harder does the evo pull. Do you miss it in the brz?

For just daily driving fun...brz or evo?

Fuel? I heard the Evo's fuel consumption is just comical if you push it. How far compare to a brz.

Finally. Evo (at least the current form) is going away. Will this be a problem In a long run? Can I still find places to service the ayc or ACD?
Evo pulls much much harder. BR-Z barely pulls, and it's pretty flat until 6+k rpm. If you want a nice pulling engine, the BRZ/FR-S aren't very satisfying.

Daily driving both are fun, you're just more likely to get a ticket with the Evo. In turns the BR-Z is more fun, because the less grippy tires mean you can take it to its limit much easier.

Mnfr have to support a car for about 25 yrs. Discontinuing doesn't mean they immediately stop supporting the car.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:22 PM   #62
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In turns the BR-Z is more fun, because the less grippy tires mean you can take it to its limit much easier.
That's only if you keep the OEM tires (or similar ones like Z1 Star Specs) on the Evo. Going with a less hardcore summer tire (like Hankook V112 Evos) do let the car slide a little bit more easily. I've tried it myself in mine.

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Mnfr have to support a car for about 25 yrs. Discontinuing doesn't mean they immediately stop supporting the car.
Exactly, it doesn't just end right then and there. Isuzu has been out of the game for a bit for passenger vehicles in the U.S., but I think that certain dealerships are contracted to service them for warranty needs and such.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #63
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The evo i get so much sausage giving me thumbs up and people trying to race me in there civics

im also coming from a STi
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:18 AM   #64
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That's only if you keep the OEM tires (or similar ones like Z1 Star Specs) on the Evo. Going with a less hardcore summer tire (like Hankook V112 Evos) do let the car slide a little bit more easily. I've tried it myself in mine.


Exactly, it doesn't just end right then and there. Isuzu has been out of the game for a bit for passenger vehicles in the U.S., but I think that certain dealerships are contracted to service them for warranty needs and such.
All the tires you just named are race prepped tires. The will NOT break loose like the prius tires we we're given at stock form. That is a literal term. Our tires are the same brand series as a Prius. The purpose they gave us these tires was so the car broke loose, giving us the feel of a much faster car. IE you break loose on every turn or chirp through third gear shifts you feel like you have a powerful car.

You put star specs especially (or v12's I have owned them both ony Evo) you will not break loose, and will loose that feel of a more powerful car but will gain more handling because the car will not break loose, but will take the corners beautifully. The v12's are more greasy of a tire and will not produce as much of the handling feel until brought to heat

The brz/frs as a stock form is a drift car. You put a6's or star specs on it and you have a track car
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:15 AM   #65
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I was referring to those tires on an Evo (as I said I have tried both tires in "mine," as I own a IX). So with them being on an FR-S/BRZ, yes, it will be much harder to break traction, though of course it will be most difficult in the Z1s.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:53 PM   #66
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I should've clarified and say an Evo and FR-S are fun in completely different ways. The Evo is fun because it's literally quick. The FR-S is fun because you can fling it around.

Getting less grippy tires doesn't make the Evo more fun than an FR-S. imo. It's not a car to get the tail loose like the FR-S. I like both the Evo and FR-S a lot. I'd lean towards the FR-S more only because I don't have to brazenly brake the law to enjoy it on the street.
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