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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 08-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #35
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I wouldn't buy another Evo or STi.
After 5 DSMs and 2 Evos, yeah I'm done with Mitsu honestly. Their dealers suck, their warranties suck. The Toyo near me is the best dealer in FL, price, service and parts.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #36
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Nope, I'm saying at 5k rpm a stock X will drop 5-10 psi boost depending on the gear.


I guess you forgot where I said I owned one for almost 3 years.
I know that you owned one, but I was referring more to your comment about the "usable power under the curve." Most turbocharged engines (particularly in higher-boost applications like Evos) hit peak earlier and taper off... the same thing was the case with the VIII and IX.

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I would just say power junkies need not apply. I personally find the FR-S more enjoyable to drive then the STi or EVO. I always have a smile ear to ear that never happens when I drive the STi.


Power Junkies will never understand that power isn't everything. Take the 87 BMW M3 that is a very balanced car that has less power than the BRZ/FR-S but it's a blast to drive.
I don't think we're talking about power junkies, since we're not really debating on whether or not the FR-S/BRZ is an enjoyable drive. The STI isn't really a car that is of much relevance in this thread though, since the original topic was between an FR-S/BRZ and an Evo, plus if you've driven both, then you would know that the STI will just about never be in a "best drivers car" comparison unless they are doing it just with AWD cars.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:19 PM   #37
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The STI isn't really a car that is of much relevance in this thread though, since the original topic was between an FR-S/BRZ and an Evo, plus if you've driven both, then you would know that the STI will just about never be in a "best drivers car" comparison unless they are doing it just with AWD cars.
I had both.. as far as fun to drive, I'd rank them the following...

04 STi >> Evo X >>>>>>>> 11 STi

But they are SUVs (albeit with a lot of power/tq) compared to a proper RWD sports car.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #38
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I had both.. as far as fun to drive, I'd rank them the following...

04 STi >> Evo X >>>>>>>> 11 STi

But they are nothing compared to a proper RWD sports car.
Was it stock? One of my closest friends had a 2004 STi that I had driven on many occasions (and also a few times on long trips to Vegas), and even with decent springs, the car seemed a bit numb (when compared to the cars in discussion). But I remember when he changed out other stuff like bushings and other steering-related parts, it really woke the car up in the handling department.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:32 PM   #39
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Was it stock? One of my closest friends had a 2004 STi that I had driven on many occasions (and also a few times on long trips to Vegas), and even with decent springs, the car seemed a bit numb (when compared to the cars in discussion). But I remember when he changed out other stuff like bushings and other steering-related parts, it really woke the car up in the handling department.
Sorry, I should have been more specific and it probably skews the results some. But the 04 STi was a Stg 2 with Tarmac 2 coilovers. Pretty much maxed out in SCCA STU specs. In hindsight, I should have kept the car. But compared to an 86, it definitely was numb but good for the type of car. The Evo X and 11 STi were stock.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:16 AM   #40
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Trap speeds can vary more than you've posted and I never said they were exact. Quoting trap speeds doesn't prove anything but here let me math it for you..


Evo X GSR details:
3515 lbs
276 hp peak
3515 / 276 = 12.73 lbs per hp


FRS details:
2758 lbs
200 hp peak
2758 / 200 = 13.79 lbs per hp


If you add the ~15hp that I actually quoted


2758 / 215.5 = 12.79 lbs per hp


Good enough maths for you? And I bet the FR-S has more useable power under the curve while the stock Evo X hit's peak boost mid range and tapers off from 5k to redline.
You might want to start with the correct numbers. The Evo X GSR makes 291hp, and 300lb/ft of torque, that's more than double the FR-S. It's NOT peaky power either, it makes over 85% of it's peak torque from 3000-6000RPMs, and peak HP is at 6500RPMs. Boost tapers off, but power does not, because the RPMs are rising.

Anyway, to use your own math:

Evo X
3515lbs / by 291hp = 12.07 lbs per hp

FR-S
2758lbs / by 200hp = 13.79 lbs per hp

To match the Evo X in lbs/hp, the FR-S would need another 30hp, but when did we start talking about mods? For $400 you can tune a completely stock Evo X for another 50hp, no parts needed... let's not go there.

I won't argue with you that they're close, but the power/weight in the FR-S is still just 87% of the Evo X. For $1500 you could probably get make that difference up, no argument there, and still spend a lot less than the Evo X is new. I'm only saying they're not equal...

And with all that said, I'm pretty close to selling the Evo X to buy an FR-S. And I am pretty certain I won't regret it.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:11 AM   #41
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You will regret selling your Evo x for a frs or brz unless A) you cant afford the gas on the Evo or B) you have a stg 4 clutch in the Evo which makes it hell to drive

This is coming from someone that has both. The brz is no where as exciting as a modded evo x
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:24 AM   #42
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I've driven a stock Evo IX and it didn't really blow me away. Granted, they respond better to mods than almost any car on the market, and I know they can be insane performance machines, but compared to a 2006 STi I drove, I'd pick the STi, stock vs stock.

I like the Evo X more than the IX, but I haven't driven one. Is its driving position a little lower than the IX? Is it a little more buttoned-down? There's a white one I see every day for sale that I lust over each time I pass it. They hadn't depreciated enough to be in my pricerange though when I was in the market, otherwise I might have bought a blue Evo X.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:28 AM   #43
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^ I haven't sat in an VIII or IX in a while, but the Evo X seating is really high. And there is no height adjustment.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:42 AM   #44
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Damn. I was hoping it was more like a DSM or 3KGT than an SUV.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by srt4evah View Post
You might want to start with the correct numbers. The Evo X GSR makes 291hp, and 300lb/ft of torque, that's more than double the FR-S. It's NOT peaky power either, it makes over 85% of it's peak torque from 3000-6000RPMs, and peak HP is at 6500RPMs. Boost tapers off, but power does not, because the RPMs are rising.

Anyway, to use your own math:

Evo X
3515lbs / by 291hp = 12.07 lbs per hp

FR-S
2758lbs / by 200hp = 13.79 lbs per hp

To match the Evo X in lbs/hp, the FR-S would need another 30hp, but when did we start talking about mods? For $400 you can tune a completely stock Evo X for another 50hp, no parts needed... let's not go there.

I won't argue with you that they're close, but the power/weight in the FR-S is still just 87% of the Evo X. For $1500 you could probably get make that difference up, no argument there, and still spend a lot less than the Evo X is new. I'm only saying they're not equal...

And with all that said, I'm pretty close to selling the Evo X to buy an FR-S. And I am pretty certain I won't regret it.
Sorry was using the JDM spec hp. I just don't see the point when I say they're close why that makes people think I said exact and begin to argue seriously? It's like evos are on some pedestal and nothing comes close or else your lying!!

That's really dumb. My point for showing power to weight math is that people are saying the evo is SO MUCH faster when in reality it's not. Furthermore trap speeds are in no way indicative of actual power to weight. The fact that the trap speed quote had so much deviation how is it even possible to use that as anywhere close to being accurate.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:02 PM   #46
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I've driven a stock Evo IX and it didn't really blow me away. Granted, they respond better to mods than almost any car on the market, and I know they can be insane performance machines, but compared to a 2006 STi I drove, I'd pick the STi, stock vs stock.
That's weird. I've driven numerous examples of both, and the STI understeers a lot, in comparison. That's not to take away from it, it's a great car, but like I said you're not going to see it in any Best Handling Car competitions.

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That's really dumb. My point for showing power to weight math is that people are saying the evo is SO MUCH faster when in reality it's not. Furthermore trap speeds are in no way indicative of actual power to weight. The fact that the trap speed quote had so much deviation how is it even possible to use that as anywhere close to being accurate.
I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but what in your opinion would constitute a car being "so much faster" or not? I don't want to play the numbers game but the performance specs and lap times of the two cars are likely going to be very different... even though the satisfaction from behind the wheel will be above average for either car.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:46 PM   #47
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That's weird. I've driven numerous examples of both, and the STI understeers a lot, in comparison. That's not to take away from it, it's a great car, but like I said you're not going to see it in any Best Handling Car competitions.


I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but what in your opinion would constitute a car being "so much faster" or not? I don't want to play the numbers game but the performance specs and lap times of the two cars are likely going to be very different... even though the satisfaction from behind the wheel will be above average for either car.
I'll definitely give you understeer in the STi, moreso than the Evo. The engine is mounted further forward in the STi, being longitudinal, so it's got that extra front overhang that causes pretty unappealing turn-in understeer.

But to me it felt a little more solid, a little less cheap, and you could feel the bigger engine at play there. I think for a race car, I'd take the Evo, but for a DD or racy street car, I'd have to go STi. Stuff like exhaust note and power curve and interior quality push me toward the STi, even knowing the Evo will outperform it when the mods start rolling in. The Evo's power was pretty far up top and the turbo lagged a little bit more than I'd want. Granted they both have some lag, and they have great power/torque, the Evo's was always a little harder to reach.

Stock vs stock these cars are basically identical in terms of end-of-the-day track figures imo. At least they're as close as it gets, depending on which has the better tires that day (Evo comes with some pretty nutso summer treads).
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #48
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I'll definitely give you understeer in the STi, moreso than the Evo. The engine is mounted further forward in the STi, being longitudinal, so it's got that extra front overhang that causes pretty unappealing turn-in understeer.

But to me it felt a little more solid, a little less cheap, and you could feel the bigger engine at play there. I think for a race car, I'd take the Evo, but for a DD or racy street car, I'd have to go STi. Stuff like exhaust note and power curve and interior quality push me toward the STi, even knowing the Evo will outperform it when the mods start rolling in. The Evo's power was pretty far up top and the turbo lagged a little bit more than I'd want. Granted they both have some lag, and they have great power/torque, the Evo's was always a little harder to reach.

Stock vs stock these cars are basically identical in terms of end-of-the-day track figures imo. At least they're as close as it gets, depending on which has the better tires that day (Evo comes with some pretty nutso summer treads).
I agree with a lot of that, even though my personal preference was to get the opposite car (which I've owned two of). It's interesting how similar the cars are on paper in terms of their actual specs and performance specs, yet the driving experiences are very different. Some people love the stronger bottom-end torque of the STI, and some people love the better top-end power of the Evo. I actually have more close friends with STIs than Evos (not counting random people who I've met at meets and know them by their usernames), and we can go on all day long about it.

The interior of the STI definitely "looks" better, but a lot of the important stuff that you touch on a constant basis has a slight edge in the Evo, from the steering wheel (pretty similar though) to the seats (far superior) to the shifter (which felt a bit better, as the STI's shifter always felt "loose" to me). But again, the rest of the interior can be an eyesore at times. I remember when I got my first Evo in early 2006, I took a girl to the movies, and the first thing she asked was, "If this is a new car, how come this part [pointing at the head unit and HVAC] looks like that?" As much as I could justify it to myself, I knew that it wouldn't matter to her. But she did like the seats though!
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:11 AM   #49
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I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but what in your opinion would constitute a car being "so much faster" or not? I don't want to play the numbers game but the performance specs and lap times of the two cars are likely going to be very different... even though the satisfaction from behind the wheel will be above average for either car.
Thank you, that's all I'm trying to say. "close" is a subjective measure of course, but to me, that means fractions of a second, or that either car could win in any given situation, all things being equal. That's not the case, the Evo is faster in any race situation or condition.

And trap speeds ARE the definitive measure of power to weight, short of an actual dyno. The fact that they vary has more to do with specific power available under various weather conditions, but the variance over a large sample will be consistent and give you the consistent view of what the power to weight ratio in fact is.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #50
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I agree with a lot of that, even though my personal preference was to get the opposite car (which I've owned two of). It's interesting how similar the cars are on paper in terms of their actual specs and performance specs, yet the driving experiences are very different. Some people love the stronger bottom-end torque of the STI, and some people love the better top-end power of the Evo. I actually have more close friends with STIs than Evos (not counting random people who I've met at meets and know them by their usernames), and we can go on all day long about it.

The interior of the STI definitely "looks" better, but a lot of the important stuff that you touch on a constant basis has a slight edge in the Evo, from the steering wheel (pretty similar though) to the seats (far superior) to the shifter (which felt a bit better, as the STI's shifter always felt "loose" to me). But again, the rest of the interior can be an eyesore at times. I remember when I got my first Evo in early 2006, I took a girl to the movies, and the first thing she asked was, "If this is a new car, how come this part [pointing at the head unit and HVAC] looks like that?" As much as I could justify it to myself, I knew that it wouldn't matter to her. But she did like the seats though!
lol

She probably liked the boost too.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:40 PM   #51
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wow this has spun way out of control. I am not even going to comment on ALL the things that have been discussed but there is a lot of false info on evo's being thrown out there. i would like to keep this thread to the simple start that i had it on or ask the monitors to just lock it before someone gets beat up over the internet lol
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