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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 08-28-2012, 03:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ironsquid View Post
I came from a bone stock Evo X (lease). If you do the math the FR-S isn't that far off power-to-weight ratio wise (~15hp shy on the 86).
The math is lies though, LOL. If they had the same power to weight, they would have the same quarter mile trap speeds.

BRZ trap speed: 93-94mph
Evo X trap speed: 99-102mph

Trap speeds have nothing to do with traction, OR driving ability, they're a pure measure of power to weight, and to a smaller extent, gearing.

That said, I have an Evo X MR Touring making 125whp more than stock, but I'm looking at selling it to get an FR-S. The Evo X is an amazing machine, but I'm a little weary of it. It's phenomenal when you drive it balls-out, like few cars on the road, but as a DD it bores me. It feels a little bit heavy, and it rides pretty rough (on Eibach springs mind you), plus it gets sorta bad gas mileage, 16-19mpg average. I love Evos, but this is my second Evo, and I just want to go back to a simpler car that I can drive hard every day without doing 120mph.

The FR-S with rims/tires/bolt-ons is what I want now.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by srt4evah View Post
The math is lies though, LOL. If they had the same power to weight, they would have the same quarter mile trap speeds.

BRZ trap speed: 93-94mph
Evo X trap speed: 99-102mph

Trap speeds have nothing to do with traction, OR driving ability, they're a pure measure of power to weight, and to a smaller extent, gearing.

That said, I have an Evo X MR Touring making 125whp more than stock, but I'm looking at selling it to get an FR-S. The Evo X is an amazing machine, but I'm a little weary of it. It's phenomenal when you drive it balls-out, like few cars on the road, but as a DD it bores me. It feels a little bit heavy, and it rides pretty rough (on Eibach springs mind you), plus it gets sorta bad gas mileage, 16-19mpg average. I love Evos, but this is my second Evo, and I just want to go back to a simpler car that I can drive hard every day without doing 120mph.

The FR-S with rims/tires/bolt-ons is what I want now.

Trap speeds can vary more than you've posted and I never said they were exact. Quoting trap speeds doesn't prove anything but here let me math it for you..


Evo X GSR details:
3515 lbs
276 hp peak
3515 / 276 = 12.73 lbs per hp


FRS details:
2758 lbs
200 hp peak
2758 / 200 = 13.79 lbs per hp


If you add the ~15hp that I actually quoted


2758 / 215.5 = 12.79 lbs per hp


Good enough maths for you? And I bet the FR-S has more useable power under the curve while the stock Evo X hit's peak boost mid range and tapers off from 5k to redline.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ironsquid View Post
And I bet the FR-S has more useable power under the curve while the stock Evo X hit's peak boost mid range and tapers off from 5k to redline.
I wouldn't go that far. The Evo X's peak torque does hit relatively high (4400 rpm) but it's a pretty flat curve that was stated by Mitsubishi as being torquier at pretty much any given rpm than the previous Evo IX (which peaked at 3500 rpm, so even at that lower rpm, the X has more torque but hasn't peaked yet). Having driven an Evo X pretty hard (while having owned two Evo IXs), I'd say it's a believable claim. Also, based on manufacturer claims, the IX supposedly already had 85% of its peak torque (which calculates to around 245 lb-ft) by 2500 rpm, so if the X is at least at that point (though it's probably beyond it), then I don't see the FR-S having "more useable power," unless you're trying to say that the X has too much power to use on a regular basis in a somewhat legal manner (which is what srt4evah was getting at toward the end of his post).
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:13 PM   #32
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I wouldn't go that far. The Evo X's peak torque does hit relatively high (4400 rpm) but it's a pretty flat curve that was stated by Mitsubishi as being torquier at pretty much any given rpm than the previous Evo IX (which peaked at 3500 rpm, so even at that lower rpm, the X has more torque but hasn't peaked yet). Having driven an Evo X pretty hard (while having owned two Evo IXs), I'd say it's a believable claim. Also, based on manufacturer claims, the IX supposedly already had 85% of its peak torque (which calculates to around 245 lb-ft) by 2500 rpm, so if the X is at least at that point (though it's probably beyond it), then I don't see the FR-S having "more useable power," unless you're trying to say that the X has too much power to use on a regular basis in a somewhat legal manner (which is what srt4evah was getting at toward the end of his post).

Nope, I'm saying at 5k rpm a stock X will drop 5-10 psi boost depending on the gear.


I guess you forgot where I said I owned one for almost 3 years.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #33
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Nope, I'm saying at 5k rpm a stock X will drop 5-10 psi boost depending on the gear.


I guess you forgot where I said I owned one for almost 3 years.
I would just say power junkies need not apply. I personally find the FR-S more enjoyable to drive then the STi or EVO. I always have a smile ear to ear that never happens when I drive the STi.

Power Junkies will never understand that power isn't everything. Take the 87 BMW M3 that is a very balanced car that has less power than the BRZ/FR-S but it's a blast to drive.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:03 AM   #34
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I wouldn't buy another Evo or STi.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #35
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I wouldn't buy another Evo or STi.
After 5 DSMs and 2 Evos, yeah I'm done with Mitsu honestly. Their dealers suck, their warranties suck. The Toyo near me is the best dealer in FL, price, service and parts.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #36
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Nope, I'm saying at 5k rpm a stock X will drop 5-10 psi boost depending on the gear.


I guess you forgot where I said I owned one for almost 3 years.
I know that you owned one, but I was referring more to your comment about the "usable power under the curve." Most turbocharged engines (particularly in higher-boost applications like Evos) hit peak earlier and taper off... the same thing was the case with the VIII and IX.

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I would just say power junkies need not apply. I personally find the FR-S more enjoyable to drive then the STi or EVO. I always have a smile ear to ear that never happens when I drive the STi.


Power Junkies will never understand that power isn't everything. Take the 87 BMW M3 that is a very balanced car that has less power than the BRZ/FR-S but it's a blast to drive.
I don't think we're talking about power junkies, since we're not really debating on whether or not the FR-S/BRZ is an enjoyable drive. The STI isn't really a car that is of much relevance in this thread though, since the original topic was between an FR-S/BRZ and an Evo, plus if you've driven both, then you would know that the STI will just about never be in a "best drivers car" comparison unless they are doing it just with AWD cars.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
The STI isn't really a car that is of much relevance in this thread though, since the original topic was between an FR-S/BRZ and an Evo, plus if you've driven both, then you would know that the STI will just about never be in a "best drivers car" comparison unless they are doing it just with AWD cars.
I had both.. as far as fun to drive, I'd rank them the following...

04 STi >> Evo X >>>>>>>> 11 STi

But they are SUVs (albeit with a lot of power/tq) compared to a proper RWD sports car.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #38
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I had both.. as far as fun to drive, I'd rank them the following...

04 STi >> Evo X >>>>>>>> 11 STi

But they are nothing compared to a proper RWD sports car.
Was it stock? One of my closest friends had a 2004 STi that I had driven on many occasions (and also a few times on long trips to Vegas), and even with decent springs, the car seemed a bit numb (when compared to the cars in discussion). But I remember when he changed out other stuff like bushings and other steering-related parts, it really woke the car up in the handling department.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Was it stock? One of my closest friends had a 2004 STi that I had driven on many occasions (and also a few times on long trips to Vegas), and even with decent springs, the car seemed a bit numb (when compared to the cars in discussion). But I remember when he changed out other stuff like bushings and other steering-related parts, it really woke the car up in the handling department.
Sorry, I should have been more specific and it probably skews the results some. But the 04 STi was a Stg 2 with Tarmac 2 coilovers. Pretty much maxed out in SCCA STU specs. In hindsight, I should have kept the car. But compared to an 86, it definitely was numb but good for the type of car. The Evo X and 11 STi were stock.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:16 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ironsquid View Post
Trap speeds can vary more than you've posted and I never said they were exact. Quoting trap speeds doesn't prove anything but here let me math it for you..


Evo X GSR details:
3515 lbs
276 hp peak
3515 / 276 = 12.73 lbs per hp


FRS details:
2758 lbs
200 hp peak
2758 / 200 = 13.79 lbs per hp


If you add the ~15hp that I actually quoted


2758 / 215.5 = 12.79 lbs per hp


Good enough maths for you? And I bet the FR-S has more useable power under the curve while the stock Evo X hit's peak boost mid range and tapers off from 5k to redline.
You might want to start with the correct numbers. The Evo X GSR makes 291hp, and 300lb/ft of torque, that's more than double the FR-S. It's NOT peaky power either, it makes over 85% of it's peak torque from 3000-6000RPMs, and peak HP is at 6500RPMs. Boost tapers off, but power does not, because the RPMs are rising.

Anyway, to use your own math:

Evo X
3515lbs / by 291hp = 12.07 lbs per hp

FR-S
2758lbs / by 200hp = 13.79 lbs per hp

To match the Evo X in lbs/hp, the FR-S would need another 30hp, but when did we start talking about mods? For $400 you can tune a completely stock Evo X for another 50hp, no parts needed... let's not go there.

I won't argue with you that they're close, but the power/weight in the FR-S is still just 87% of the Evo X. For $1500 you could probably get make that difference up, no argument there, and still spend a lot less than the Evo X is new. I'm only saying they're not equal...

And with all that said, I'm pretty close to selling the Evo X to buy an FR-S. And I am pretty certain I won't regret it.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:11 AM   #41
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You will regret selling your Evo x for a frs or brz unless A) you cant afford the gas on the Evo or B) you have a stg 4 clutch in the Evo which makes it hell to drive

This is coming from someone that has both. The brz is no where as exciting as a modded evo x
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:24 AM   #42
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I've driven a stock Evo IX and it didn't really blow me away. Granted, they respond better to mods than almost any car on the market, and I know they can be insane performance machines, but compared to a 2006 STi I drove, I'd pick the STi, stock vs stock.

I like the Evo X more than the IX, but I haven't driven one. Is its driving position a little lower than the IX? Is it a little more buttoned-down? There's a white one I see every day for sale that I lust over each time I pass it. They hadn't depreciated enough to be in my pricerange though when I was in the market, otherwise I might have bought a blue Evo X.
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