Summer is coming right...?

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

FYI, the setup I'm running on my FR-S is 205/45-17 Continental DW's on lightweight 17x7.5 +40mm Enkei Fujin's on stock suspension... feels better in basically every aspect compared to the previous 215/45-17 Kumho XS on ultralight 17x8 +36mm Kosei K4R.

Interesting...I'm looking for a replacement for my 225/50 Ecsta XS (on 12.5 lb 16x7s). I've had the Conti DW on a different, much heavier rwd car (255/40-17) and thought they were great in that application, but overall I like the XS better (performance-wise...the DW clearly are better in the wet, and in noise/comfort). Do you autocross/track your car at all? I'm just curious to hear your feedback on why you like the DW better than the XS..

[churchx]

Softer sidewalled tires with more mass transfer & roll may even improve handling in some driving ways .
I like points brought up in this video: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9kQrbPEXKU"]Tim Schrick and Sven Kueenle "enjoying the limits" - YouTube[/ame] , as argumenting against going overboard with stiffening up suspension/tires. Not everybody is pro to deal with such setups well, and fun driving on public roads and track, not on 10/10 limit in controlled track environment, might be good case of using such softer sidewall tires.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by churchx

Softer sidewalled tires with more mass transfer & roll may even improve handling in some driving ways .

Exactly why I've been saying going to 16s makes the car more entertaining to drive on the street.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

I'd say Continental DW or the new Sport. DW is probably the best daily driver tire I've driven on thus far - absolute confidence inspiring with wet grip that feels as good as its dry grip, which is well beyond the stock tires. The sidewalls are noticeable less stiff compared to Michelins, but even though the response is not as quick because of that, the overall handling is much more improved and quite nice once you get the hang of how it really works (you can be extremely quick with rotation/yaw on these tires once you get the feel for them.)

When you drive the FR-S hard in a canyon/backroad on the DW's what immediately comes to mind is its extreme stability in fast, tight turns - it simply never feels upset. Most other tires with stiffer sidewalls are more darty/twitchy in fast, tight turns...especially if the road is not smooth. The DW's are like riding in a super stable band of grip...dry or wet doesn't matter. It's not a mushy tire in the least, but it doesn't have the super instant linear responsiveness of those stiff sidewalled tires. What it allows you to do though is feel so comfortable with the handling beyond the level of those stiff walled tires, where they start feeling twitchy and nervous - the DW is completely smooth and composed when pushing hard and fast. That combined with its wet/dry performance being so equal in level is why it's the most awesome DD tire I've driven on so far.

FYI, the setup I'm running on my FR-S is 205/45-17 Continental DW's on lightweight 17x7.5 +40mm Enkei Fujin's on stock suspension... feels better in basically every aspect compared to the previous 215/45-17 Kumho XS on ultralight 17x8 +36mm Kosei K4R.

https://m.popkey.co/432368/0JWdD.gif

[Calum]

Originally Posted by churchx

Softer sidewalled tires with more mass transfer & roll may even improve handling in some driving ways .
I like points brought up in this video:

, as argumenting against going overboard with stiffening up suspension/tires. Not everybody is pro to deal with such setups well, and fun driving on public roads and track, not on 10/10 limit in controlled track environment, might be good case of using such softer sidewall tires.

100% agreed.

Although that makes me wish I would have saved longer and gotten the Online coilovers instead of the T0s that I have. The stock suspension wasn't stiff enough, even with stock tires I was bottoming it out on hard corners and when it went over irregularities in the pavement the cars reaction was down right jarring. So, I went with TOs as one of the softest sprung kits out there. But with sufficient travel and spring rate to make those transitions smooth and controllable. With the PSSs, it was just too stiff for our roads and my driving. Hopefully something like the DW will be better suited. If not, well, I'll try something else in two years.

Originally Posted by venturaII

Exactly why I've been saying going to 16s makes the car more entertaining to drive on the street.

I've thought of 16s. A few times. I might end up going that way, but for now I'd rather not spend money on rims. I'm on the stock rims and I like the look, and the weight is fine. But if the DWs or the sports don't do it, that might be a better way ahead for what I'm looking for, than all seasons. I'll have to roll that one around in my brain pan for a while.

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Interesting...I'm looking for a replacement for my 225/50 Ecsta XS (on 12.5 lb 16x7s). I've had the Conti DW on a different, much heavier rwd car (255/40-17) and thought they were great in that application, but overall I like the XS better (performance-wise...the DW clearly are better in the wet, and in noise/comfort). Do you autocross/track your car at all? I'm just curious to hear your feedback on why you like the DW better than the XS..

Did you match tire tread width to wheel rim width? Reasons I went with a 205/45-17 tire are manyfold - low cost, lighter than stock, gearing/acceleration advantage, drop in CG, and direct match in tread width for a 7.5" wheel. Match the tread width to wheel width, especially on a softer sidewall tire, and you maximize its responsiveness, minimizing the input lag.

The DW rides much better than the Kumho XS, and as previously post mentioned, is a much more planted tire in all situations. I only ran the XS once on track when first got the FR-S in 2012 (one month after getting the car) and it felt good with them on track. Have not tracked or autocrossed since, but did run the XS on the street for daily driver tire until they needed to be replaced with about 8-9k miles on them...down to the wear bars and basically slicks with 2 small grooves at that point. Went back to the stock Primacy HP tires, which I also liked better than the XS for daily driving, wore them down to slicks in about 20k miles. Going from stock to DW was yet another upgrade - dry grip level like the XS, but with better ride quality than the Primacy HP, and wet grip and performance beyond what both could ever do. For a daily driver summer tire, the Maximum Performance Summer category is where it's at, and the DW should be the comparison benchmark. Just make sure to match the tread width with the rim width.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Did you match tire tread width to wheel rim width? Reasons I went with a 205/45-17 tire are manyfold - low cost, lighter than stock, gearing/acceleration advantage, drop in CG, and direct match in tread width for a 7.5" wheel. Match the tread width to wheel width, especially on a softer sidewall tire, and you maximize its responsiveness, minimizing the input lag.

The DW rides much better than the Kumho XS, and as previously post mentioned, is a much more planted tire in all situations. I only ran the XS once on track when first got the FR-S in 2012 (one month after getting the car) and it felt good with them on track. Have not tracked or autocrossed since, but did run the XS on the street for daily driver tire until they needed to be replaced with about 8-9k miles on them...down to the wear bars and basically slicks with 2 small grooves at that point. Went back to the stock Primacy HP tires, which I also liked better than the XS for daily driving, wore them down to slicks in about 20k miles. Going from stock to DW was yet another upgrade - dry grip level like the XS, but with better ride quality than the Primacy HP, and wet grip and performance beyond what both could ever do. For a daily driver summer tire, the Maximum Performance Summer category is where it's at, and the DW should be the comparison benchmark. Just make sure to match the tread width with the rim width.

A 7"rim is right in the middle of the recommended range for a 225/50 tire, and the sized used for advertised mounted dimensions. Given this and my own experience with the combo, I'm quite comfortable with this size pairing with the XS. The tire doesn't fall over on the sidewall, even when autocrossed/tracked and at the lower starting pressures those environments typically require. The tradeoff is harsher ride and more noise than the DW, but using 16s the taller sidewall also lessens some of the harshness, so it seems like a bit of a wash there...


Again, my experience with the DW was with a different car so I can't give firsthand experience when comparing with the XS on the FRS. The DW were 255/40s on a 9" rim, so a bit more aggressively paired than my current setup. I did autocross a few times with the DW and while they performed admirably for what they are, I have a hard time believing they have the same dry grip as the XS (340 TW versus 180), if the same sizes were compared. They ARE a lightweight tire (usually the lightest in a given size) and do have a softer sidewall, so even with the more aggressive wheel sizing, I still needed more pressure to keep the tire from rolling over as much. I'm not knocking the DW at all - I think they're a great street tire (especially in the wet), quiet and comfortable with admirable dry grip, and a great value, but ultimate performance is definitely a step down from the XS, by design.


I love the combination of durability and grip of the XS on track, and so I'd originally planned on replacing the XS with the new V720, but after hearing reports of tearing/chunking I'm considering other options.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Exactly why I've been saying going to 16s makes the car more entertaining to drive on the street.

What tire and size are you running on a 16" wheel?