Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86 twins: not the drifter everyone says they are

[mines13]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Mmmk well every car is different, and not every single car can achieve above EPA rating for highway MPG. Most can, but many can't, especially cars these days. Almost all of the new econo cars out there that are rated at 40MPG highway (Cruze, Elantra, Focus) only achieve 40 under the most perfect circumstances. Just go to Fuelly and look up some examples.

Absurd. Tire pressure, altitude, wind direction, etc. There are MANY variables that will effect realized MPG in ANY vehicle. It is simply ridiculous to make ANY of those statements and claim they are facts. You can get 15MPG in a Prius or 30MPG in an M3 depending on all of the obvious variables, and many of the less obvious.

[blur]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Oh so sorry man. It is the c5 Z06 Corvette that achieves 28 MPG highway, my bad bro.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/142226.html

I know that car ONLY has 405hp so yeah a weak ass 200hp car getting a whole 2MPG better is truly awesome.

Oh wait, the z06 doesn't require premium, and it runs high 12's in the quarter mile

A bad name for Accord owners? First of, an Accord owner is a pointless term. I own an accord because I needed a sub $4k beater car to drive while I gear up to buy a better car in the future. An accord just happened to be the best one I could find at the time, so i'm not an Accord enthusiast.

And a bad name because why exactly? Because I speak truths you don't want to hear?

This car is expensive for what you get, it's slow, it apparently is a shitty drift car according to the article from the original post in this thread, it gets lousy MPG, requires premium fuel for an NA motor..

Oh but it handles really well.

Why not just buy a car that's capable in all of those other areas and slap on some coilovers? I just don't understand why so many people have a hard on for this car. This car isn't at all what they originally said it would be (that is if you had followed it since the first concept appeared).

The "truth"

What problems did you run into? What year was the Ls1?

It was an 01. The ping was RIDICUOUS. The engine knocked so hard I felt like it was going to hit the hood. The car was also spewing out black smoke when I would get on it to pass or whatnot. My theory was the engine picked up the knock and richened up the fuel and probably retarded the spark. It didn’t have any pop either; it would fall flat on its face which is actually very dangerous (when you think your car can move really fast from a stop and doesn’t).

This happened until it went empty, I filled up with good stuff, and after about half an hour of driving everything was back to normal.

I'm really tired of picking apart your rediculous arguments, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. And the fact that you ignored nearly all of my other points just to provide another FALSE statement shows that I'm clearly wasting my time here. Go internet race somewhere else, loser.

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by blur

The "truth"





I'm really tired of picking apart your rediculous arguments, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. And the fact that you ignored nearly all of my other points just to provide another FALSE statement shows that I'm clearly wasting my time here. Go internet race somewhere else, loser.

Oh wow you found one example of somebody who had an engine problem with a 350+hp motor. Shucks. Guess the tens of thousands of other C5's that are still on the road must be ticking time bombs.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

I accidentally referenced a c6 z06 corvette instead of a c5 z06 corvette. As has been stated many times, the car is just a TAD bit faster than a BRZ. I know you're clinging on to the BRZ's 5 MPG higher EPA rating than a c5 z06, but forget about the 205hp difference, and the 2.5 seconds difference in the quarter mile.

I know I know, the BRZ is not a drag car. I get it. Point being is that if you could add 205hp to the BRZ, and only lose 5 MPG on the highway, you would do it.

Not at all, if you read the whole post you quoted you will see that I actually said the Corvette is a good car. I do not make ridiculous comparisons. Me, personally? No, my preference is balance. the larger Corvette is designed to have that kind of power with its longer wheelbase, wider track width etc. Not quite as agile but tons of mechanical grip. I enjoy driving and going to the track, taking a 405hp 3100lb car to track will get very expensive very quickly. I also do not feel that the Z06 (C5 as I have not driven a C6) provides very good steering feedback, etc. Great car, but not what I want. I would never knock you for buying a Corvette though, as I said, it's a great car. Great but different.

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by mines13

Absurd. Tire pressure, altitude, wind direction, etc. There are MANY variables that will effect realized MPG in ANY vehicle. It is simply ridiculous to make ANY of those statements and claim they are facts. You can get 15MPG in a Prius or 30MPG in an M3 depending on all of the obvious variables, and many of the less obvious.

http://www.fuelly.com/

Click.

[MmmHamSandwich]

Folks, did anyone honestly expect that a manufacturer, especially in this day and age, would purposefully produce a car with a stock suspension setup that promoted oversteer?

If you want to drift set the car up as a drift car. No car maker in their right mind would configure a car from the factory with those kinds of tendencies. Lawsuit central.

"You made the car too easy to crash." "Oh oh but we wanted it to drift well!"
Yeah that will hold up in court...

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

I accidentally referenced a c6 z06 corvette instead of a c5 z06 corvette. As has been stated many times, the car is just a TAD bit faster than a BRZ. I know you're clinging on to the BRZ's 5 MPG higher EPA rating than a c5 z06, but forget about the 205hp difference, and the 2.5 seconds difference in the quarter mile.

I know I know, the BRZ is not a drag car. I get it. Point being is that if you could add 205hp to the BRZ, and only lose 5 MPG on the highway, you would do it.

So why don't you go buy a Z06? Oh that's right, because it costs $75,000

[mines13]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

http://www.fuelly.com/

Click.

Ok, that just reinforces EVERYTHING I just said. Thanks for playing.

[naticedog04]

@shaX 07

so you're comparing a z06 (40K+ car, modified, researched, driven like a grandma) EPA to an FRS/BRZ (25K car, not modified, not reasearched, average driven) EPA??? sounds a little biased to me since you "love" the car(z06)... by the way, who in the heck would drive a z06 like a grandma and be proud(you i assume????) (i love my grandmas by the way).
a good comparison of the frs/brz would be against the rsx-type s... similar specs, similar price (if rsx was brand new, hypothetically), just FR to FF... i love my rsx type s and would be interested in seeing the differences/similarities of a FRS/BRZ.

Sorry to hear you won't be purchasing an FRS/BRZ(NOT)... after you test drive one, please don't post how much you were disappointed cause im sure you wont push it, and drive like the grandma you described in the z06... but please be sure to post how much EPA you averaged cause you seem to know how to get it up in the 40 MPG somehow??

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

It's funny how people think this car has somehow changed over time. The reality is that the specs are exactly what they were supposed to be when the first rumors came out. Here's an article from 2009:

http://wot.motortrend.com/rumored-to...ej20-4617.html

They list the specs as
Engine: Subaru 2.0L EJ20 direct-injected gasoline flat-four cylinder
Power: Around 200 hp
Transmission: six-speed manual
Length: 165.4 in.
Width: 68.9 in
Height: 51.2 in
Wheelbase: 97.2 in
Weight: 2645.5 lbs
Price: Around $20,000

Those are all basically spot on, except the price which is really not something they can control. Those of us who have been following this car from the very beginning got exactly what we were expecting. I don't really understand where the people who are disappointed in the final numbers got their high expectations from.

This car has always been a "fixed" Miata to me.

[blur]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Oh wow you found one example of somebody who had an engine problem with a 350+hp motor. Shucks. Guess the tens of thousands of other C5's that are still on the road must be ticking time bombs.

The engine problem was caused by using the fuel you suggest will run high 12s in the quarter mile, which is obvious BS. Running premium as the car was intended to eliminates the problems.

I don't have any idea as to how this relates to the "tens of thousands of other C5's that are still on the road must be ticking time bombs" when obviously this only applies to the ones that run regular gas...

Whatever. Read sig, it applies to you.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

What's really funny about this statement is that nobody who makes it has driven the car either, so how do you know it drives oh so amazing when you haven't even driven it yourself?

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

He's one of the first 86. Thanks for playing, better luck next time!

Same here, and for titusdrake (who's driven it on two separate occasions).

Here's my issue. I'm OK that you have a differing opinion (and really that's all it is), and I'm even OK that you want to post it and have a discussion about it. However, that isn't what you were doing.

I think its been proven that the car is EXACTLY what they said it would be as early as 2009 with the exception of the price. As I said above, I don't know any car that has ever met the first projected price when configured like someone would want to drive/own it. That's just Marketing 101. No one really knows the cost of a product until all the parts are selected and everything is sorted out, but nearly EVERYONE always thinks it will be lower than reality.

If you want to debate the specifications of the production car against other production cars (legitimately) I'm all for that. However, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they've "drunk the koolaid". After all, I could say the same about you. However, I don't believe you have, I just think you have an opinion you think is a fact, and that's where you are.

Good enough. We'll agree to disagree.

I said this once before I got sucked in again, I'm (really) done talking about pricing. The car costs what it costs, performs as it performs, comes configured as it comes configured, love it or leave it.

Me, I love it.

I've been waiting for this car since 1989 when I had to pull life support on my beloved MK1 MR2 (which by the way, only had 112HP, 0-60 in mid 8 at best, and no better fuel economy). It wasn't a street rocket, it wasn't going to win many drag races, but what it was a hell of a lot of fun to drive.

Going through the Applachian mountains at 50 to 60 miles an hour, fully in control when others were doing 30, now that's a car!

That's what we have here, and why I'll be buying one. You want to talk about its merits on the facts, great, you hate it, that's great too. I'm sure you'll find something you love as much. It might even cost less. If so, more power to you.

[titusdrake]

Im gonna change my sig.. Im getting sick of saying THIS CAR IS NOT ABOUT NUMBERS. This car is not about being faster, this car is not about having more features/power for less money. This car is about FUN and a passion for driving. The price tag is what it is because the fr s happens to be a SPORTS CAR that has TOYOTA reliability.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

I'm holding out hope for either the TRD Supercharger coming to fruition or a turbo version of either car being released. That would keep me interested.

Then why the Vette mpg comparo? We've been hearing vague speculation of ~250 hp (maybe also a 25% tq bump to 180-190 range???) Which isn't earth shattering when compared to the Vette either plus the mpg will drop.

For probably a lot more money than a used C5 Z06... So I don't really follow your interest.