I got sick from reading this discussion about the Twins

[calmtigers]

How many "FA20 & FI" threads will pop up this week?

I'm guessing 2 more?

[jvincent]

^^^^ I'm taking the over on that one.

[NOHOME]

I realize that this will come as a huge surprise to many people, but believe it or not, Toyota and Subaru are NOT actually selling a race-car out of their showroom. I know...its a shock aint it?!

I have asked about a hundred times and never got an answer: "What exactly is it that the car does not have enough power to do?"

If you answer with "Keep up with (insert car of choice) what you are saying n fact is that it does not have enough power to inflate a weak ego. And I will accept that answer.

The twins were conceived with the same marketing DNA as the Miata: "Keep the power reasonable so that the Insurance Companies do not make it a barrier to purchase" Had a suitable warhead been installed in the car at the factory, the peanut gallery would be complaining that it was not affordable to drive. Besides,why should every buyer be forced to pay for the power addiction of a very small portion of buyers?

What Toyota and Subaru did is leave plenty of room for the aftermarket to extract more performance. The liability is out of their hands at that point. Believe it or not, it is the aftermarket that determines the sucess of cars like the Miata and the Subaru, it is the true barometer of the enthusiast's adoption of the car and a passion to make it his own.

[8R6]

this is the first car that i loved the handling so much, i actually didnt slam it to the ground with fucked up suspension. even as much as i loved my AP2 as a driver's car, i still slammed it to the ground. but this one... oh man. it's just too awesome to mess it up.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

How many "FA20 & FI" threads will pop up this week?

I'm guessing 2 more?

Oh at least! We should start a pool to see who guesses closest!

[Koa]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

I realize that this will come as a huge surprise to many people, but believe it or not, Toyota and Subaru are NOT actually selling a race-car out of their showroom. I know...its a shock aint it?!

I have asked about a hundred times and never got an answer: "What exactly is it that the car does not have enough power to do?"

If you answer with "Keep up with (insert car of choice) what you are saying n fact is that it does not have enough power to inflate a weak ego. And I will accept that answer.

The twins were conceived with the same marketing DNA as the Miata: "Keep the power reasonable so that the Insurance Companies do not make it a barrier to purchase" Had a suitable warhead been installed in the car at the factory, the peanut gallery would be complaining that it was not affordable to drive. Besides,why should every buyer be forced to pay for the power addiction of a very small portion of buyers?

What Toyota and Subaru did is leave plenty of room for the aftermarket to extract more performance. The liability is out of their hands at that point. Believe it or not, it is the aftermarket that determines the sucess of cars like the Miata and the Subaru, it is the true barometer of the enthusiast's adoption of the car and a passion to make it his own.

This sums up my feelings and sentiments about the Twins almost to the T.

The way I see it, there's two things that the Twins have been given a lot of attention to that are VERY expensive to change/be unique:

-The chassis
-The body

All else is easier to mod (albeit aero kits and what have you do enable one to change the body)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

• The first comment on that site has a point... Honda released the s2000 12 YEARS before the twins with 40 extra HP. keep in mind that the s2000 dynos close to hondas numbers, while the twins dyno far below its provided numbers.
• This car needs more power. Just because you are satisfied (or have convinced yourself of this), doesn't mean that most people don't notice that it is in fact lagging in the power department. Nearly EVERY driving enthusiast who has reviewed this car, has agreed about this.
• This thread is full of fanboys making excuses... Just stop. There is no excuse. Toyota and subaru got lazy on the engine, period. Just look at the other threads, nearly EVERY single member is looking to make this car faster, and most have had to boost it just to get decent power.
• You don't mind the stock power. Fine, but please stay out of our way while we plead with Toyota & Subaru to make a decent engine.


It always cracks me up to see people say that the stock power is perfect. If this car had debuted with 240hp, would the same people be saying that the car has 40hp too many? Lol

*Flamesuit ON*

Was gonna respond to each point but can tell right away that I can not hope to compete with the King of Trolls!
Helluva first post there Buddy.
Let us know when your Prius gets out of the shop and you are in a better mood.

[kh060]

Originally Posted by Koa

As a huge supporter of Komen walks, a caregiver to my father who has recently battled (and won!) prostate cancer, as well as a person who doesn't have any grandparents due to lung cancer, I can somewhat understand your reservations about the title.

Cancer is definitely a sensitive topic for a lot of people, but it's pretty safe to say reading something won't give someone that illness.. hoped it was far-fetched enough to warrant the joke.

Condolences and prayers if you're going through a hard time or have gone through rough times due to cancer

Sorry but the title does hit my nerve a little bit too. I was staged IIIC colon cancer and was done with my chemo 1 year ago. It started to spread to my appendix so it was removed as well. Everyday I try to live life and enjoy this car as much as I can because I sure hope that It doesn't come back because how far I am staged, I am never cured anymore. The cancer just comes back or I die young. Suck to have this at 34 and we are just starting to try for my first child (no luck yet), and what sucks even more is that my younger brother at age 28 was also diagnosed Stage IIIC colon cancer last year. He just got done with his chemo + radiation 6 months ago. We broke out the news to my mother and father 2 months apart. So glad I have health insurance because between 1 year of surgery and treatments, my health plan paid out $400k in expenses, and I only had $15 copay visits.

Please you guys, enjoy your life. And if you have kids please take time to enjoy your time with them. For a moment I was pretty down waiting to see what stage my cancer was and how it is spreading, until it turned out a little better news to be IIIC. Stage IV is very bad with only 5%-20% survival rate I think.

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

In a perfect world, it would come with 250-270 WHP out of the box, but nothing is perfect. Discounting the whole car because of it is silly, however.

In a perfect world and defying all realms of physics and quantum mechanics, we'd all have ferraris with infinite grip, infinite horsepower, 0 weight and ferrari would pay us to drive their cars; even then there'd still be people complaining about the colour, red. But everyone seems to forget that this world has limits and cost constraints.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by kh060

Sorry but the title does hit my nerve a little bit too. I was staged IIIC colon cancer and was done with my chemo 1 year ago. It started to spread to my appendix so it was removed as well. Everyday I try to live life and enjoy this car as much as I can because I sure hope that It doesn't come back because how far I am staged, I am never cured anymore. The cancer just comes back or I die young. Suck to have this at 34 and we are just starting to try for my first child (no luck yet), and what sucks even more is that my younger brother at age 28 was also diagnosed Stage IIIC colon cancer last year. He just got done with his chemo + radiation 6 months ago. We broke out the news to my mother and father 2 months apart. So glad I have health insurance because between 1 year of surgery and treatments, my health plan paid out $400k in expenses, and I only had $15 copay visits.

Please you guys, enjoy your life. And if you have kids please take time to enjoy your time with them. For a moment I was pretty down waiting to see what stage my cancer was and how it is spreading, until it turned out a little better news to be IIIC. Stage IV is very bad with only 5%-20% survival rate I think.

In retrospect, I would have picked a different headliner for this thread. I'm used to NASIOC, where there is an, 'anything goes' type of paradigm over there in terms of jokes and crassness.

Awesome to hear you are battling it with positivism and drive. You got this!

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

• The first comment on that site has a point... Honda released the s2000 12 YEARS before the twins with 40 extra HP. keep in mind that the s2000 dynos close to hondas numbers, while the twins dyno far below its provided numbers.
• This car needs more power. Just because you are satisfied (or have convinced yourself of this), doesn't mean that most people don't notice that it is in fact lagging in the power department. Nearly EVERY driving enthusiast who has reviewed this car, has agreed about this.
• This thread is full of fanboys making excuses... Just stop. There is no excuse. Toyota and subaru got lazy on the engine, period. Just look at the other threads, nearly EVERY single member is looking to make this car faster, and most have had to boost it just to get decent power.
• You don't mind the stock power. Fine, but please stay out of our way while we plead with Toyota & Subaru to make a decent engine.


It always cracks me up to see people say that the stock power is perfect. If this car had debuted with 240hp, would the same people be saying that the car has 40hp too many? Lol

*Flamesuit ON*

allowing for a 15-17% drivetrain loss the twins dyno right at 200hp...

Jaden

[AsianStyle]

I don't mind the power this car has, but I would have gladly paid more for the car for more power. If they came out with a more powerful version, I know I would have bought the more powerful version. I fully believe we got what we paid for and understand why the power is what it is at this price. I still find this car to be a bargain, especially when the only other car i would cross shop with it would be a cayman ($50k+) or a 135/235 ($40k+).

What does bother me though is this engine just really is not that special. If the reliability was there i would be ok with it, but with mediocre reliability and performance I think everyone should expect better. I do fully blame the reliability issues not on the motor itself, but subaru's inability to create a decent tune or admit to creating shitty tunes and offering recalls without some roundabout bullshit methods of getting these new tunes.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

• The first comment on that site has a point... Honda released the s2000 12 YEARS before the twins with 40 extra HP. keep in mind that the s2000 dynos close to hondas numbers, while the twins dyno far below its provided numbers.
• This car needs more power. Just because you are satisfied (or have convinced yourself of this), doesn't mean that most people don't notice that it is in fact lagging in the power department. Nearly EVERY driving enthusiast who has reviewed this car, has agreed about this.
• This thread is full of fanboys making excuses... Just stop. There is no excuse. Toyota and subaru got lazy on the engine, period. Just look at the other threads, nearly EVERY single member is looking to make this car faster, and most have had to boost it just to get decent power.
• You don't mind the stock power. Fine, but please stay out of our way while we plead with Toyota & Subaru to make a decent engine.


It always cracks me up to see people say that the stock power is perfect. If this car had debuted with 240hp, would the same people be saying that the car has 40hp too many? Lol

*Flamesuit ON*

Finally...a person who MUST have the answer to my question. DohcTor...can you tell me exactly what automotive function this car is unable to perform due to a "Lack of power"? I am dying to hear the answer.

[Kids Heart]

If Ford can make a 300hp 2.3l turbo mustang with irs for the price of a BRZ the Japanese are just doing it wrong. I love my BRZ but it took a header and tune for it to feel like it looks.