Turbo Reliability VS Supercharger reliability

[EAGLE5]

If you supercharge or turbo, you will have reliability issues. period. end of story. they will likely be small and constant. I would not install a supercharger if I was unable to switch a belt when pulled over to the side of a road. I would not install a turbo if I was unable to diagnose an intake leak and fix it. Not to mention all the possible horrors from tunes. FI is not for the faint of heart. An OEM solution would be very attractive. Maybe in another year or two, some of the systems will have bug free track records. I just don't see any kit there yet. Maybe Jackson Racing. Maybe.

[86SPEED]

Originally Posted by KGB

So from what I have gathered so far... If I do not know anything about cars, I should not get a turbo/SC. My question is why? Nobody has told me this yet. This is why I joined this forum, to gain some knowledge as to what parts I will need. Do parts generally break or requre extensive maintenance with a turbo or SC kit?
Im not planning on racing or taking the car on the track and overall I drive fairly calm. I would just prefer to have that extra power when needed.

You don't HAVE to have mechanical skills, or knowledge about cars to get forced induction. It just makes things a lot easier as our cars did not come from the factory FI and require a little more... "tinkering"... That's the best way i can put it. When you add a kit, there is no testing like a manufacturer does, no 300K mile dyno torture tests and all, so you may get a kit with no issues ever, you may get a kit that requires tweaking here and there.. You may get a kit that requires constant maintenance. Asking questions here helps but doing your own research is always best. There are always people that love kits they got, and ones that hate kits they got. I personally have drove both Turbo equipped FRS and supercharged ones, Vortech, Innovative, and Kraftwerks. When I FI my car the Kraftwerks will be the kit i go with. I loved the power delivery, and the use of a separate belt.


Thats another thing, people that have never felt this car with that kind of power are in for a shock. The whole this is how the car should've came from the factory are crazy. Spinning 265's in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd is not how this car should've came, at least IMO.. People cant control 200 hp at the crank, judging by all the wrecked cars we see.. It takes a bit a skill to drive 300 whp in this car around a track without ruining a set of tires in one session from burning them up...... but it is fun

-Thomas

[mit_peid]

Originally Posted by fteightysix

I personally have drove both Turbo equipped FRS and supercharged ones, Vortech, Innovative, and Kraftwerks. When I FI my car the Kraftwerks will be the kit i go with. I loved the power delivery, and the use of a separate belt.

Sometimes it just feels good to get validated by somebody who has some experience with different FI setups who ends up choosing to go with the same kit that is currently installed on my FRS. My rationale for choosing Kraftwerks: the supercharger dyno comparison thread and the aesthetics of the KW kit. By the way, about 4000k miles on my KW kit and besides some minor issues that have been worked out, I love the kit and its reliability and power delivery thus far.

[travisb]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

If you supercharge or turbo, you will have reliability issues. period. end of story. they will likely be small and constant. I would not install a supercharger if I was unable to switch a belt when pulled over to the side of a road. I would not install a turbo if I was unable to diagnose an intake leak and fix it. Not to mention all the possible horrors from tunes. FI is not for the faint of heart. An OEM solution would be very attractive. Maybe in another year or two, some of the systems will have bug free track records. I just don't see any kit there yet. Maybe Jackson Racing. Maybe.

This. I am far from an expert and this is from my own personal experience and should be taken as such.

I had a turbo / ECU kit for my Miata for a couple years from a very popular Miata turbo kit supplier. While everything in the kit was good quality, it was constant work, almost every week, of finding/fixing issues and adjusting tunes. While I enjoy working on my cars, I don't want to have to work on them all the time.

I plan on staying FI-free on this car and finding some extra power in other ways. Sure, it won't be as much power as you can get with FI, but I believe (my opinion) it will be more reliable. And that is the most important thing in a daily driver to me.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by KGB

So from what I have gathered so far... If I do not know anything about cars, I should not get a turbo/SC. My question is why? Nobody has told me this yet. This is why I joined this forum, to gain some knowledge as to what parts I will need. Do parts generally break or requre extensive maintenance with a turbo or SC kit?
Im not planning on racing or taking the car on the track and overall I drive fairly calm. I would just prefer to have that extra power when needed.

Parts don't generally break or require extensive maintenance, but that does happen. Things also need fine tuning which requires a knowledgebase of what has been installed on your car. I doubt there is anyone on this forum that installed a turbo or supercharger kit in a day and has not messed with it since that day. It can be things like belt/oil replacement on a supercharger or wastegate/bov spring changes on a turbo kit. It could be a small boost leak and needing to tighten a clamp on a coupler that isn't accessible unless you can remove your bumper. It could be an exhaust leak from the downpipe or turbo manifold. It could be an oil leak from your supercharger unit. It could be something arises that is completely unrelated to installing the turbo/sc kit, but because you did your warranty is now void on the engine and you will need to troubleshoot it yourself. Things like CELs and ignition coils or direct injectors failing.

[jsqui28]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

This statement is ridiculous. The labor and supporting parts to install a 2JZ in our cars will make it cost significantly more than any turbo kit.

You're right. Hence my comment said the motor (and transmission) will be 6500... If you know people at a shop who are willing to help you put it in then you could save on labor. You also can get the harness with it so it would be probably 10g's max with the right people.

[BRZPDX]

The increased fun factor, turbo spool sound, BoV, showing off at car shows, increased power was worth it enough for me.

What can ~8k buy you that can be fun for 1 ~ 2 years?
A month in Europe, cool memories and facebook photos
negligible investment
negligible down payment for a house
Hermes or Louivitton hand bag + mini vaca with SO
Save for emergency funds
A nice watch

or...
BADASS SICK SWAG TURBO

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by jsqui28

Hence my comment said the motor (and transmission) will be 6500

I think this is probably a low price for engine/trans/harness that needs no rebuilding.

[jsqui28]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

I think this is probably a low price for engine/trans/harness that needs no rebuilding.

Look it up, Ebay has them easiest to find but they're also on engine sites... research before commenting.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Header install is very easy. I would recommend looking for someone locally to help you. Nothing you can't do with just hand tools, jack, and stands. Keep your stock header and you could put it back on but at that point your committing fraud... ECU tune is 100% reservable. Cost for a header install would be 1-2 hours of labor.

ECU tune after putting on headers is just a waste of the money you spent on good headers. Headers + no tune won't remove the torque dip at all, and only add about 10 whp. Headers + GOOD tune (such as what you'd get from @nelsmar tuning your car) and front pipe (b/c the cat in the fp is also quite restrictive... so go catless fp or a hi-flow cat fp.... there's not much difference power-wise between the two for street-driven) CAN net you more like 30-40 whp gain and NO torque dip and improved fuel economy (b/c in NA, within a certain range, leaning the afr down a little lower into the ideal range for more power also improves fuel economy), and basically overall a much smoother running and driving car.

I'm running a header back exhaust (JDL UEL headers, Namless Performance hfc/resonated fp/op single piece, and Invidia Q300 catback exhaust), and with @nelsmar having tuned my car, I'm getting really good gas mileage for my driving style, the car runs really smoothly, and she's just overall a very pleasant car to drive. Smooth power, smooth engagement, and throttle response is nice and positive.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by jsqui28

Look it up, Ebay has them easiest to find but they're also on engine sites... research before commenting.

Cheapest one I saw is like $7800

[KGB]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

As long as you are prepared for the worst, you will be fine. there are engine failures both NA and FI. go enjoy that cheese burger, your heart won't stop most likely. if you are in a eating competition, you probably need some supporting mods.

[QUOTE=SirBrass;1815517]ECU tune after putting on headers is just a waste of the money you spent on good headers. Headers + no tune won't remove the torque dip at all, and only add about 10 whp. Headers + GOOD tune (such as what you'd get from @nelsmar tuning your car) and front pipe (b/c the cat in the fp is also quite restrictive... so go catless fp or a hi-flow cat fp.... there's not much difference power-wise between the two for street-driven) CAN net you more like 30-40 whp gain and NO torque dip and improved fuel economy (b/c in NA, within a certain range, leaning the afr down a little lower into the ideal range for more power also improves fuel economy), and basically overall a much smoother running and driving car.

I'm running a header back exhaust (JDL UEL headers, Namless Performance hfc/resonated fp/op single piece, and Invidia Q300 catback exhaust), and with @nelsmar having tuned my car, I'm getting really good gas mileage for my driving style, the car runs really smoothly, and she's just overall a very pleasant car to drive. Smooth power, smooth engagement, and throttle response

how much did that set up cost you? can you feel a big difference from before?

[blackhawkdown]

OP, have you ever thought about just enjoying your car for awhile? You just picked up a brand new car and now you want to sc or turbo it? I think you picked the wrong car, just my 2 cents. It might be buyers remorse? I would enjoy it and build NA until you are 100% positive that going force induction is what you want. I've own 2 WRX and 1 STi. I enjoy them all but they aren't nothing close to the twin when it comes to handling, response, and feel. 200hp is more than enough in my honest opinion. I would like at least 200rwhp.

[SirBrass]

The headers were $710 (I bought lightly used), the fp/op was about $560 shipped, and the EcuTek kit was about $600. Catback was a purely aesthetic decision, not a performance decision (it only affected exhaust note and looks, both positively) and cost $680.

I did most of the install work myself. @nelsmar road tuned and did minor updates to the tune as I sent him log files. I still have yet to arrange a weekend to put the car on the dyno to see how much improvement there was.

What I DO notice is a noticable increase in torque (it's much easier to break the rear wheels loose on stock tires, but still very controllable), more pep in the lower RPMs, no torque dip, smoother power band, and better throttle response (it no longer feels dead at the top of the pedal range on the accelerator). So, yes, I've definitely got more power, but it is expressed more subtlely unless things were being timed and measured. It's more that the power increase is a VERY nice side effect from improving everything else. This car already came with more than enough power to let you have more fun than is legally allowed, but certain constraints in the exhaust system and factory tune held it back and gave folks the impression that it was seriously lacking in power (which it isn't). The headers are the big thing. Improved headers and removal of that damned cali-legal header cat (so that the car can be sold in all 50 states, not just all of them except Cali, which is what would be the case if the car CAME with high-flow cats) allows the tuner to put more timing in, helping to remove the torque dip (or at the very least minimize it). Also, calibrating the MAF sensor helps deliver a smoother throttle response, in addition to all the other little things done when tuning.

As always, gear selection with this car is paramount to extracting the power you want. This isn't a stupidly over-powered car where you can accelerate like a mad man in a blue box in any gear at any speed at any grade. That isn't what this car was designed for. You have to put the car into the gear necessary to put the car into the part of the power band you want at the speed you're at. Not hard, but it's not brainless either. Do that, and even while stock you'll find that soccer moms won't be passing you, unlike what others who don't know how to shift claim. You're not going to pull on anyone when you're going uphill in 6th gear at 60 mph. Not going to happen. Now, going uphill at 60mph in 4th gear with aggressive throttle? Yeah, she's a sports car alright.

This isn't to say that going FI is something to avoid and that it's not worth it. Just talk to my tuner, @nelsmar. After his engine rebuild, he went turbo and is putting down stupid fun amounts of power. However, he also knows how to drive this car in NA form pretty fast, too.

What I advise against is going FI from the get-go to fix a perceived flaw that just isn't there. Is more power fun? When is it NOT? Can you have a ridiculous amount of fun with the power the car has from the factory? Hell yes. Are there things that the factory setup needs fixing in NA form? Yup, and when they're fixed I think most folks will find the car's available power to be more than satisfactory for their needs. For the rest, there's SC and turbo, and engine swaps and all the rest of those insanely expensive money pits.

As for me, I'm going to focus on aesthetics, suspension, and tires for now (not in that order).