Poor Sales of Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S Likely To Rule Out New Variants

[Tromatic]

I'm fairly sure I have never seen more people trying to find reasons to dislike a car they already have. It's an awesome car, a taste of the exotic on the cheap. There's something wrong with you, not the car.

[Sleeperz]

I don't get where people think the Mustang is just a 0-60 muscle car. Even with the rear axle the BOSS 302 does well on a race course. Just like the old days on the race courses.

Didn't you read that the 2015 gets an IRS!

Just on this forum some people say the FRS/BRZ are too small and now
the Mustang that is a little bigger is too BIG.

Anyways with 300+ Ft-lbs of torque down low, on 87 Octane, those extra pounds vs the FRS/BRZ won't matter.

With the Turbo4 the Mustang is more or less in the RWD 4banger class with FRS/BRZ, Genesis, MX-5, etc.. It is all going to come down to the Power/weight ratio.

Originally Posted by Rio

Agree 100% and it's a whole different class anyway. The mustang is a 0-60 muscle car. On a road course track it is still miles away from even Camaro. And once again... Camaro and Mustang are not direct competition to the 86.

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[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Sleeperz

I don't get where people think the Mustang is just a 0-60 muscle car. Even with the rear axle the BOSS 302 does well on a race course. Just like the old days on the race courses.

Didn't you read that the 2015 gets an IRS!

Just on this forum some people say the FRS/BRZ are too small and now
the Mustang that is a little bigger is too BIG.

Anyways with 300+ Ft-lbs of torque down low, on 87 Octane, those extra pounds vs the FRS/BRZ won't matter.

With the Turbo4 the Mustang is more or less in the RWD 4banger class with FRS/BRZ, Genesis, MX-5, etc.. It is all going to come down to the Power/weight ratio.

I will NEVER consider the 86 in the same class as the Genesis Coupe or Mustang. Sure they are all RWD coupes that have reasonable pricing, but that's about it (this is coming from a previous Genesis Coupe V6 owner).

Oh and the Mustang IS MUCH bigger, not a "little" bigger.

[Rio]

Originally Posted by Sleeperz

I don't get where people think the Mustang is just a 0-60 muscle car. Even with the rear axle the BOSS 302 does well on a race course. Just like the old days on the race courses.

Didn't you read that the 2015 gets an IRS!

Just on this forum some people say the FRS/BRZ are too small and now
the Mustang that is a little bigger is too BIG.

Anyways with 300+ Ft-lbs of torque down low, on 87 Octane, those extra pounds vs the FRS/BRZ won't matter.

With the Turbo4 the Mustang is more or less in the RWD 4banger class with FRS/BRZ, Genesis, MX-5, etc.. It is all going to come down to the Power/weight ratio.

You may be using the terminology incorrectly.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car"]Muscle car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Some of us older folks know very well the difference between a muscle car and a sports car. The Ford GT is a sports car. Ford is attempting to tap into the true sports car market with the 2015 but the Chevy beat them to the punch so far so we'll see what actually transpires with the 2015 Mustang. Don't be fooled by Ford's marketing plot to call it a sports car.

[SciOnDrifTtSlIdeR]

if they really wanted to sell these cars i believe they should have kept everything in house some people dont want the subaru engines or vice versa.... i believe scion should have done something engine wise in the variants of the 1jz or 2jz... i understand why the F4 engines were utilized light descent power plenty of possibilities for good mods, low center of gravity... the jz engines would have pulled people in even at the extra costs...

[bunny86]

Originally Posted by SciOnDrifTtSlIdeR

if they really wanted to sell these cars i believe they should have kept everything in house some people dont want the subaru engines or vice versa.... i believe scion should have done something engine wise in the variants of the 1jz or 2jz... i understand why the F4 engines were utilized light descent power plenty of possibilities for good mods, low center of gravity... the jz engines would have pulled people in even at the extra costs...

And where would they have got these engines from? Used car lots?

[SciOnDrifTtSlIdeR]

Originally Posted by bunny86

And where would they have got these engines from? Used car lots?

Let me think here scion is a division of toyota the maker of the jz engines um pretty sure they could have built them you know the same way subura made the flat fours...

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by nonicname returns

This is why this car doesn't sell well.
They made a car that is only fun at the track but targeted at people who mostly can only afford 1 car. The lack of torque means this car is pretty damn boring on the real world and the lack of usable 4 seats, space and size means that the market is VERY small.

I was ALL about this car until I drove it and almost fell asleep.
I'm buying a Fiesta ST instead with the same weight as FRS, more power(turbo), 4 seats, 4 doors, useful hatch and definitely more fun. all for less money.

It's called down-shifting.

I actually find the high-revving nature of this engine quite enjoyable, and I love being able to redline in 1st and 2nd during daily driving without worrying about speeding tickets.

To each his own I guess?

[Dorb]

This car has always been about price and bang for the buck. If it came out with more power and the price jump that goes along with it, I would have been looking at about 5-6 other cars in that price range. This came to market as an entry level sports car and should stay that way.

[Purdue FR-S]

I'm not sure what type of sales targets they had in mind...

but the S2000 for instance never had sales of 10,000 in a single year here in the states. Judging by the fact that they sold 18,000 of the FR-S in the US last year ... I'd say it's here to stay for some time yet.

Not enough sales to justify a variant ... but enough sales to justify the platform.

I guess I just hope that this doesn't deter other automakers from dropping their sporty car plans.

...and the Mustang is HUGE!!!!!!!

[Mikem53]

Really? You can't understand why people think the mustang is just a muscle car?
That says enough right there to make your agruemnet kind of ridiculous...
Ford tried IRS on the mustang in the past and failed.. Brought back the solid rear..
Let's say they bring the mustang in at 3200 lbs.. That 500lbs heavier than the twins. There goes any chance of it being nimble and direct feeling.
Having more power won't make it feel any better in turns with an extra 500lbs to deal with..
After owning and driving other more powerful cars.. I have learned that power doesn't replace less mass when it comes to handling and nimbleness..
That's what this car is all about.. And why many are more than pleased with the stock power.
The low COG, seating position, weight and high revving NA power plant is what makes this car so enjoyable.. It's go-kart like nimbleness and driver feedback makes this car stand out as a true sports car.. I doubt you will get any of that in a mustang any time soon..

Originally Posted by Sleeperz

I don't get where people think the Mustang is just a 0-60 muscle car. Even with the rear axle the BOSS 302 does well on a race course. Just like the old days on the race courses.

Didn't you read that the 2015 gets an IRS!

Just on this forum some people say the FRS/BRZ are too small and now
the Mustang that is a little bigger is too BIG.

Anyways with 300+ Ft-lbs of torque down low, on 87 Octane, those extra pounds vs the FRS/BRZ won't matter.

With the Turbo4 the Mustang is more or less in the RWD 4banger class with FRS/BRZ, Genesis, MX-5, etc.. It is all going to come down to the Power/weight ratio.

[Boxer486]

Personally I think the article is garbage. If Toyota was so concerned about volume sales for Europe they would have built it with a hatch and shoved a diesel in it. It's not like the European market is some great mystery.

Until I hear it from Akio or Tada, I could care less even still since I already have my 86.

And for those that keep trolling threads with the Genesis, Mustang, Fiesta crap please just GTFO the forum and .

[n2oinferno]

It's interesting how the term "muscle car" has become so broad as to include, for the most part, "anything American with a V8" or to include every brand "car with a decent amount of power" since a lot of people think the 370Z is a form of Japanese muscle car. I mean, you go back through the years and the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger are pony cars, rather more purpose-built sports/GT vehicles. The muscle cars were generally two door family cars where they plopped in a a big engine, like the Chevelle, Charger, and Galaxie.
The More You Know ♒☆

[SirBrass]

The pony cars became muscle cars. They haven't been the pony cars for many years now.

I'm on my phone so if I make mistakes, blame Sportsguy83