Jackson Racing Dual Radiator/Oil Cooler

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

I am actually wondering the same thing. With that said however, looks like there might not be much of a benefit in running both. The JR one has a massive cooling capacity compared to the small core the Forester one has. Plus, it looks a bit cleaner. Once i change my intake I will hook this up and let you know.

Are they both circulating the same coolant and does it matter much for bringing the oil up to temp or lowering it when hot because the Forester one is circulating engine coolant right, and the JR one requires the thermostat to be open to circulate coolant through the oil, right?

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Are they both circulating the same coolant and does it matter much for bringing the oil up to temp or lowering it when hot because the Forester one is circulating engine coolant right, and the JR one requires the thermostat to be open to circulate coolant through the oil, right?

From what i know the oil temp is controlled by the temp of the coolant. I dont think there is a thermostat on the oil cooler plate.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

From what i know the oil temp is controlled by the temp of the coolant. I dont think there is a thermostat on the oil cooler plate.

To use the body as an analogy, the heart constantly pumps blood through the central circulatory system. When the body gets hot, blood vessels dilate opening the peripheral circulatory system to the skin where hot blood goes to be cooled via conduction and evaporation.

For a car, the coolant is pumped via the water pump constantly through the engine. When the engine gets hot, the thermostat opens so hot coolant can be cooled via conduction at the radiator.

Some external oil coolers have a thermostat, so that cool oil isn't circulated through the cooler when it is cold, which could delay getting the oil up to proper operating temperature, or it could keep the oil too cold and thick for those living in areas where the winters get colder.

The JR setup doesn't have a thermostat at the cooler says you, so oil is constantly being sent to the cooler. This may not be a problem for those in cooler climates for the winter months because the warm coolant will keep the oil at a regulated temperature.

Here is my point: the Forester XT regulator circulates coolant from the block or central system to the regulator. It doesn't pull any coolant from the radiator side. With the XT regulator, when the engine is cold and warming during initial driving, coolant raises in temperature faster than oil raises in temperature, which will help to warm the oil and get the car up to proper operating/racing temps faster. This is good. The JR setup won't do this because when the car is cold the thermostat is closed, so water is just sitting in the radiator, not circulating, not getting warm. So the idea is that the Forester XT setup helps to get the oil warm and keep it cool. The JR setup just helps with cooling, much better cooling, so that is why I would keep both.

[churchx]

Irace86.2.0: i might be wrong, but doesn't water temps rise even faster then oil ones and in this case even without thermostat won't oil temps in cold weather/cold temps with JR dual-rad rise quicker then with thermostat in forester heat exchanger? Thus having no thermostat might be even beneficial, as one less part to fail and less expensive kit cost then might be, and adding thermostat will even slow down oil warming up, as path to rad with hotter water will be closed off for oil until oil itself warms up?

[Tor]

Originally Posted by venturaII

You answered your own question. If the oil gets up to operating temp faster, then it has more time to remove moisture. If you're on a 500 mile trip, then it isn't an issue. But if you're driving 10 minute errands here and there, like how 90% of daily driving is done, then it's a much bigger issue.

Water also evaporates at e.g. 120 deg f. It even evaporates at 60 f - that's how streets dry up after it rains. Water does not needs to boil to evaporate.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tor

Water also evaporates at e.g. 120 deg f. It even evaporates at 60 f - that's how streets dry up after it rains. Water does not needs to boil to evaporate.

Correct. And it evaps even quicker at 210F. So as I already said, getting the oil up to temp faster is more beneficial.

[Horrid_Funk]

From the bit of driving I've done I haven't noticed a much longer warm up time, but I don't have any data to back that up. It's possible it's longer but for the typical driving I do it hasn't made enough difference to notice so far. Once the engine is warm though, the oil temp has almost perfectly pegged the coolant temp, sitting 185 -195 F.

The basic mechanics suggest the oil isn't being warmed until the coolant comes up to temp, but once the coolant is hot and opens the thermostat, the oil is then warmed and quickly matches it (from my short experience). I think depending on the ambient temperature and how the car's being driven (both speed/air flow and engine load) the oil warmup may be slower or faster than without the cooler. We'd need some pretty thorough test methodology to really understand all of the variables.

I personally think in the majority of cases it's probably not a large enough difference to worry about.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Correct. And it evaps even quicker at 210F. So as I already said, getting the oil up to temp faster is more beneficial.

Originally Posted by Horrid_Funk

I personally think in the majority of cases it's probably not a large enough difference to worry about.

Exactly. I think this is crazily exaggerated. If it was any problem, all cars would be equiped with heat exchangers. Normal cars that are driven short trips are not blowing up left and right.

There is a video on youtube with someone installing a Forrester heat exchanger. He made video with oil temp overlay before/after - there was no mentionable difference in the time it took to heat up.

If you get that much water in your oil that is such a big problem, you need to check you head gaskets...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by churchx

Irace86.2.0: i might be wrong, but doesn't water temps rise even faster then oil ones and in this case even without thermostat won't oil temps in cold weather/cold temps with JR dual-rad rise quicker then with thermostat in forester heat exchanger? Thus having no thermostat might be even beneficial, as one less part to fail and less expensive kit cost then might be, and adding thermostat will even slow down oil warming up, as path to rad with hotter water will be closed off for oil until oil itself warms up?

Yes the coolant heats faster than the oil. The difference is the Forester XT regulator circulates the warming coolant against the cool oil heating it up. Meanwhile, the coolant in the radiator is still cold because the coolant in the engine is warm but not hot, not hot enough to open the thermostat to circulate coolant through the radiator. Therefore, the oil in the JR setup is not being warmed—if anything it could be getting cooled by the radiator.

How much it matters or to what difference it makes, I don’t know.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tor

Exactly. I think this is crazily exaggerated. If it was any problem, all cars would be equiped with heat exchangers. Normal cars that are driven short trips are not blowing up left and right.

There is a video on youtube with someone installing a Forrester heat exchanger. He made video with oil temp overlay before/after - there was no mentionable difference in the time it took to heat up.

If you get that much water in your oil that is such a big problem, you need to check you head gaskets...

No one said anything about quarts, or even ounces of water in the oil. However if you're going to the trouble of upgrading your oiling system because of excess heat, it doesn't hurt to address the other end of the scale at the same time. The fundamentals are that the coolant heats up faster than the oil, therefore without a thermostat in the way, the FXT cooler warms the oil quicker than it would without. Nothing is being exaggerated anywhere - no one has said your car will go twice as far between oil changes or make more power. The correct premise is simply that the W2O cooler is beneficial in both areas of engine maintenance. No one is making you buy one, so no need to panic.

Ahh - YouTube....home of everything true and unbiased. I'm pretty sure I could post a video on YouTube 'proving' my car gets 100mpg.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Ahh - YouTube....home of everything true and unbiased. I'm pretty sure I could post a video on YouTube 'proving' my car gets 100mpg.

Who cares where it's posted. Main thing is what was shown and the way it was done. I actually debunked this on another forum before and made a gif back then... Found it:

When the coolant reaches 89 deg C there is a whooping 4 deg difference in oiltemp.

No one is making you buy one, so no need to panic.

I think this is a great product, but if I was to buy it it would be because it's an oil cooler. If your main concern is getting the oil warm you are better of with a pre-heater.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tor

I think this is a great product, but if I was to buy it it would be because it's an oil cooler. If your main concern is getting the oil warm you are better of with a pre-heater.

Again, you're clearly missing the point of the factory cooler, which is that it kills two birds with one stone (and in a compact and affordable form factor). I'm not concerned with just one of the two main areas it addresses, I'm concerned with both, which is why I didn't purchase a simple thermostat-less air-to-oil cooler.

I'm happy you feel confident that you 'debunked' a well engineered factory component, which many manufacturers use on both F/I and N/A applications. Maybe you should let them know.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Again, you're clearly missing the point of the factory cooler, which is that it kills two birds with one stone (and in a compact and affordable form factor). I'm not concerned with just one of the two main areas it addresses, I'm concerned with both, which is why I didn't purchase a simple thermostat-less air-to-oil cooler.

I'm happy you feel confident that you 'debunked' a well engineered factory component, which many manufacturers use on both F/I and N/A applications. Maybe you should let them know.

The only issue, is that the factory cooler is a bit lacking for any performance driving, such as canyoning, or even a novice on the track.

Remember, oil temp is directly related to RPM, and our version of the FA20 revs just a wee bit higher than an EJ or FA20DIT. The OEM cooler isn't able to keep up, at all, in this application.

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The only issue, is that the factory cooler is a bit lacking for any performance driving, such as canyoning, or even a novice on the track.

Big rad would be suffice or need fans also?