Next Gen BRZ thoughts

[Broseph]

Lots has been discussed concerning the engine, and we each have our own desires there.
Little has been talked about concerning the shift to Toyota’s platform and away from Subaru’s.
Some questions I have are, is this a good thing? Does this now mean every bolt, headlight, taillight, steering wheel, headunit, brake caliper etc will be 100% sole Toyota’s design? Or will Subaru have heavy development in the body parts designs/implementations? There are things I love in the newest Subarus and things I don’t love in the newest Toyotas.
I’m really hoping Subaru still has a lot of heavy design involvement with the car, not JUST the engine.

[Opie]

The “rumor” that the next gen will use a Toyota platform is just that at this time, a rumor. The reasoning the initial author of that rumor used was that the new Subaru Global Platform architecture would not facilitate a RWD design. This is just not true, the new SGP still uses a driveshaft to drive the rear wheels so to convert it to a RWD only platform is relatively simple, more simple that converting Toyota’s TNGA platform. At this point we’ll just have to wait a little more than a year to see what they’ve done. Either way both platforms have more torsional stiffness and are lighter than the previous generations, so either would be an improvement.

As far as engine we should stick with what we already know, engineers have previously stated the car would not have a turbo and would use a Subaru drivetrain. So it could use a redesigned FA20 or FA24 as those are the two common Subaru engines being used at this time, it could be a redesigned FA16, or it could be something all new, again, we’ll have to wait and see.
The biggest “if’s” IMHO are:
If they can make it as light and balanced with better power and performance as the current gen.
If they can keep it priced reasonably
If they can they can do these two things and make it desirable to a wider audience.

We’ll see hopefully in the next 18 months or so…

[soundman98]

i'm flipping tables if it doesn't have flip up headlights!

[Broseph]

I’m walking away if there’s no turbo. Just as I’ve kept my distance thus far.
No turbo, no care.

[soundman98]

just walk away now then. because it is not going to have a turbo.

[HachiRokuX]

Toyota:

“Fortunately, we already have a product for those looking for a Turbo 86. It’s called a ZUpRA.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HaXx]

Originally Posted by Broseph

I’m walking away if there’s no turbo. Just as I’ve kept my distance thus far.
No turbo, no care.

dont let the door hit you on the way out

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Broseph

I’m walking away if there’s no turbo. Just as I’ve kept my distance thus far.
No turbo, no care.

Bye bye then.

[Broseph]

LOL!! Tough crowd. Very mature. Great community here.

Never took the walking shoes off.

We’ll see what they do. If they were smart, they’d put the FA24DIT in it.
It’s sales are dismal on the Subaru side and worsening by the month. Nobody wants them at altitude because the lack of torque is so bad it’s not even fun up here. There’s a point where the high-revving fun factor goes to crap when you lose so much power at altitude.
It’s a bummer - so much potential. I, and many, many others hope they do this right.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Broseph

LOL!! Tough crowd. Very mature. Great community here.

Never took the walking shoes off.

We’ll see what they do. If they were smart, they’d put the FA24DIT in it.
It’s sales are dismal on the Subaru side and worsening by the month. Nobody wants them at altitude because the lack of torque is so bad it’s not even fun up here. There’s a point where the high-revving fun factor goes to crap when you lose so much power at altitude.
It’s a bummer - so much potential. I, and many, many others hope they do this right.

You are smarter than Toyota and Subaru? That is impressive.
The sales are not "dismal" the sales are exactly what they planned for. They were never looking for Corolla or Impreza sales numbers from this. They said so from the start. They plan what to build and sell all of them.
You and "many" other have different options if you want more power and they are not going to change the whole scope of the car to appease you.
Now go back to reading your clickbait websites where you seem to get all your info.

[Broseph]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You are smarter than Toyota and Subaru? That is impressive.
The sales are not "dismal" the sales are exactly what they planned for. They were never looking for Corolla or Impreza sales numbers from this. They said so from the start. They plan what to build and sell all of them.
You and "many" other have different options if you want more power and they are not going to change the whole scope of the car to appease you.
Now go back to reading your clickbait websites where you seem to get all your info.

Another very mature post. Are you capable of having an adult conversation without insulting people? Judging from your post history, it doesn't look like it.


I've been following the BRZ before they were a thing. I know exactly what the intent for the car is. I know exactly what Subaru and Toyota's sales expectations are. This is all public information and has been since before they were even released.



Problem is, the world has changed and even SOA, the dealer networks and anybody connected with SOA say the BRZ needs massive help. They sit on lots and nobody wants them up here because of the reasons I've stated. Some dealers won't even carry them. Most carry them in extremely limited quantities. It is a platform with so much potential and it just needs more power. Tiny N/A 4-bangers don't work @ 6,800ft. At least a 25%+ power loss.



I love Subaru and I love small, manual RWD coupes with power. Hope they get this one right.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Broseph

Another very mature post. Are you capable of having an adult conversation without insulting people? Judging from your post history, it doesn't look like it.


I've been following the BRZ before they were a thing. I know exactly what the intent for the car is. I know exactly what Subaru and Toyota's sales expectations are. This is all public information and has been since before they were even released.



Problem is, the world has changed and even SOA, the dealer networks and anybody connected with SOA say the BRZ needs massive help. They sit on lots and nobody wants them up here because of the reasons I've stated. Some dealers won't even carry them. Most carry them in extremely limited quantities. It is a platform with so much potential and it just needs more power. Tiny N/A 4-bangers don't work @ 6,800ft. At least a 25%+ power loss.



I love Subaru and I love small, manual RWD coupes with power. Hope they get this one right.

Not sure what my post history has to do with it but since most of yours consists of "needs more power" I guess we will be at odds.

"up there" is not everywhere. They sell just fine in the rest of the world.
There are already plenty of options to increase power. Complaining that they are no good there and the rest of us should agree is not accurate. You want more power then buy one and add more power. Or just buy a Supra and be done with it.
Would love to see some supporting evidence that "anybody connected with SOA" says it is in trouble and needs massive help.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i'm flipping tables if it doesn't have flip up headlights!

What was the last mass produced car that had flip up headlights?

Originally Posted by Broseph

We’ll see what they do. If they were smart, they’d put the FA24DIT in it.
It’s sales are dismal on the Subaru side and worsening by the month. Nobody wants them at altitude because the lack of torque is so bad it’s not even fun up here. There’s a point where the high-revving fun factor goes to crap when you lose so much power at altitude.
It’s a bummer - so much potential. I, and many, many others hope they do this right.

Sales are right where Subaru and Toyota expected them, especially after a 7 year 1st gen production run.


Subaru BRZ U.S. Sales:
2019 = 2,334
2018 = 3,834
2017 = 4,131
2016 = 4,141
2015 = 5,296
2014 = 7,504
2013 = 8,587
2012 = 4,144


Scion 86 / FR-S U.S Sales:
2019 = 3,398
2018 = 4,133
2017 = 6,846
2016 = 7,457
2015 = 10,507
2014 = 14,062
2013 = 18,327
2012 = 11,417

Combined BRZ / FRS / 86 U.S. Sales:
2019 = 5,732
2018 = 7,967
2017 = 10,977
2016 = 11,598
2015 = 15,803
2014 = 21,566
2013 = 26,914
2012 = 15,561

Compared to U.S. Mazda Miata sales over the same period:
2019 = 7,753
2018 = 8,971
2017 = 11,294
2016 = 9,465 (4th Gen ND released)
2015 = 8,591
2014 = 4,745
2013 = 5,780
2012 = 6,305

I think the twins are doing just fine.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Broseph

I've been following the BRZ before they were a thing. I know exactly what the intent for the car is. I know exactly what Subaru and Toyota's sales expectations are. This is all public information and has been since before they were even released.

If that's the case, then you should know it is never going to have a turbo. Updated FA24 at best.

If you want a 4cyl Turbo the Zupra is getting one.