quick questions about this car in snow

[Darnold]

I came from a 2001 s2000 to my 14 brz. Did my research and the car is supposed to be rather pleasant to drive in the snow. Local owner was out in every snow storm with 6"+ of snow on the ground and never got stuck.

Invest in GOOD snow tires

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Us "old" guys should all remember when 99.9% of the cars on the road were ALL RWD (unless of course you had a Toranado). We all managed to drive just fine and obviously lived through it as we are here to talk about it.
If I could manage my 70 Coronet R/T with it's 500+ horse engine (that probably was close to the weight of an FRS all on it's own), positrac diff, 14 inch raised rear end and massive (bald) rear tires through several Canadian winters then the FRS should be a piece of cake!

I hear you, and am right there with you.

Remember everyone, there's about a 99.9% chance that your Grandmother (or maybe Great Grandmother at this point) learned to drive in a rear-wheel drive, 3 on the tree, 4,000lb car.

My first 3 cars never had a new set of tires on them. I always bought biased-ply "used tires" or "recaps" because that was what I could afford.

And yes, I drove to school up-hill both ways, in snow and ice, so get off my lawn!

[stonenewt]

Part of the problem is tyres are becoming more specialised. A friend of mine has had one of his cars for 35 years from new, his comment is that modern all season tyres in the snow are about as good as the cars original 'sports' tyres & if things got really bad you got your snow chains out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

Part of the problem is tyres are becoming more specialised. A friend of mine has had one of his cars for 35 years from new, his comment is that modern all season tyres in the snow are about as good as the cars original 'sports' tyres & if things got really bad you got your snow chains out.

Yessireee!
To stick to the "I am old theme" I remember when you options were pretty much:
Summer
Winter
Wide or narrow whitewalls!

[CatDaddysBBQ]

Drove all last winter on the OEM bridgestones (not the primacy summer tires). Chicago's worst winter in over a decade.

It was fun, in short. The car turns and stops very well in the snow, but starting to move can be problematic if you're in unplowed over 3/4". You will get the hang of it, but it has the potential to get stuck if you don't plan ahead.

Honestly, it wasn't as bad as I thought, though I have secured a set of winter tires for THIS coming year and am happy to have done so. We'll see how much better it is (spoiler alert: lots).

Winter tires are amazing. They turn "not so bad" cars in the snow into tanks, and make sports cars do-able.

And on the LSD thoughts? Yes, it will keep you from getting stuck spinning one tire, but in turn, it makes the car MUCH MUCH MUCH more tail happy in the snow, so it's not 100% a bonus. Open diff's are safer when moving I suppose.

My main takeaway? Drifting everywhere for 4-5 months makes you a MUCH better driver, so take the opportunity to learn as much control as you can. And have fun.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I hear you, and am right there with you.

Remember everyone, there's about a 99.9% chance that your Grandmother (or maybe Great Grandmother at this point) learned to drive in a rear-wheel drive, 3 on the tree, 4,000lb car.

My first 3 cars never had a new set of tires on them. I always bought biased-ply "used tires" or "recaps" because that was what I could afford.

And yes, I drove to school up-hill both ways, in snow and ice, so get off my lawn!

Hey, me too!

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

Buying tyres? I start here (obviously only useful for people in the UK )

No, buying tires.

[khan]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

No, buying tires.

Tyres would be the British way of spelling it as well as in a bunch of other countries.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by khan

Tyres would be the British way of spelling it as well as in a bunch of other countries.

He knows he is just yanking his chain!

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by CatDaddysBBQ

And on the LSD thoughts? Yes, it will keep you from getting stuck spinning one tire, but in turn, it makes the car MUCH MUCH MUCH more tail happy in the snow, so it's not 100% a bonus. Open diff's are safer when moving I suppose.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, I'm afraid. Remember that there are different kinds of "LSDs". A true locked diff (e.g. the "Detroit locker") loses all differential function when locked, so the outer wheel can't travel more than the inner one through a turn if either wheel slips at all and locks the diff. This can precipitate a skid in slippery turns, but then again it wasn't designed for bad roads. Drag racers love 'em.

LSDs with internal clutches don't lock up completely - the maximum torque transfer is between 2 and 2 1/2 to 1, so there's still a fair amount of torque at the wheel with poor traction. But there has to be some traction in order to compress the clutches in the diff, so really slick surfaces may not allow the tire without traction to generate enough force to transfer torque to the other side. And there's a time lag for clutch engagement in the diff, so it can actually cause more skidding by engaging in the middle of a turn or a slide.

A Torsen ("torque sensing") diff can transfer a full 90% of torque to the wheel with bite. It's also much faster than a clutch-based LSD and is continuously variable, unlike the other two that have to engage in some way to be effective. So a Torsen displays less of the bad behavior that plagues lockers and clutch-based LSDs on slick roads. A Torsen will be open if one wheel loses all traction, though - there has to be at least some bite for it to work (although less than most clutch-based LSDs require).

There's a downside to open diffs that affects us on the track much more than on the road, but it's a consideration any time one wheel spins. One of the worst things you can do on the track is to immediately and rapidly try to pull the car back onto the blacktop if you put a drive wheel off. The wheel that's on grass is spinning as though it were on ice if you don't have a locked rear and you stay on the power. Jerking the wheel to haul it back onto the blacktop can result in sudden traction, and that snaps half shafts when the rapidly spinning wheel grabs hold of the ground under full power. FYI the right thing to do is to slow while keeping 2 on and 2 off, and then to bring it back onto the track safely while controlling the throttle to avoid wheel spin. Should you be nuts enough to find yourself in this situation with one wheel on ice, the same advice applies - but backing off in an icy turn could provoke a spin, so be careful.

[navanodd]

Originally Posted by CatDaddysBBQ

Winter tires are amazing. They turn "not so bad" cars in the snow into tanks, and make sports cars do-able.

And on the LSD thoughts? Yes, it will keep you from getting stuck spinning one tire, but in turn, it makes the car MUCH MUCH MUCH more tail happy in the snow, so it's not 100% a bonus. Open diff's are safer when moving I suppose.

My main takeaway? Drifting everywhere for 4-5 months makes you a MUCH better driver, so take the opportunity to learn as much control as you can. And have fun.

I'll agree with all of this. The torsen helps a lot when accelerating, but driving this car in the snow makes you aware that if you break both rear wheels loose (which you will) you lose all static friction laterally. It is easily controlled when the rear end breaks loose, but it does so very easily.


Whether it has to do with some part of the traction control that won't disable without the pedal dance, I never encountered the situation where one wheel completely on ice would cause the diff to act like it was open. If I spun tires it was always both.


Winter driving experience definitely adds a lot to driver skill. You're driving the car at its absolute limits - even if that is only 30 km/h. I really enjoy winter driving, just not in traffic. The number of people who think they don't need to switch tires AND don't think they need to change their driving style is far too high.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

He knows he is just yanking his chain!

I'm a d!ck.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by HiredGun

What's the snow button do then? Just start it in second gear (for the automatic)? I thought it did something with the TC

I don't know if someone already fully answered this but it basically reprograms the shift patterns, not only does it just lock out first gear, but it also shifts a bit earlier just to limit your torque and throttle response. It doesn't mess with the traction control or throttle mapping or anything other than the transmission, its basically softens the throttle response and such through the gears

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'm a d!ck.

Yep!
Looks like we have a new "Technical Debate Group" developing when a quick question on driving in the snow turns into a physics and advanced mechanics (Oh that is not politically correct "automotive technician") class so we need some jerks to keep the forum in balance! I promise to do my part.