Terrible Experience With Dealer on Transmission

[Jay Laifman]

Hi. We have a 2018 86 GT. Love the car. It's actually my daughter's. I have a question about shifter alignment.

It started making a noise. She brought it to me and I said it sounded like the throw out bearing. She took it to the local dealer.

STRIKE ONE: They could not hear the sound. They even got their "master technician" and he said he couldn't hear it - even though my daughter could hear it at the time. The guy even stalled the car when he was pushing the clutch in and out.

So I told her to take it to a Subaru dealer and see what they said. The guy there, in 3 seconds, told her that her throwout bearing was making noise. Of course they can't do Toyota warranty work. So she went back to the dealer to have them fix it. They almost reluctantly agreed to check it out. They finally agreed it was the throw out bearing and fixed it.

STRIKE TWO: My daughter picked it up and noticed the shifter gates were wrong. The 1/2 throw was like 1/4" away from the 3/4 throw and there was maybe a 2" space between 3/4 and 5/6. Also the shift knob was crooked AND the dash gear number indicator wasn't working.

WHAT SLOPPY WORK? WHY DIDN'T THEY FIRST NOTICE THAT THE GATES WERE MESSED UP.

STRIKE THREE: I took it back and they insinuated the close gates was normal. But they fixed it and when I went back, the light worked, the shifter knob was no longer twisted, and the gates were equal. BUT now it would not go into 1 or 2 easily. The service rep, the manager and the tech guy all insisted it was correct. But I finally got another technician there to admit is was all wrong.

I'm thinking they don't know how to shift. Which isn't surprising.

What it did was, for example, if you pushed the shift lever all the way to the left, against the hard stop, to slide up to 1 or down to 2, it would not go into 1 or 2. You had to release pressure so the lever would spring over 1/4" to go around the blockage. Similarly, if you were downshifting from 3 to 2, sliding the lever down out of 3, against the "wall" and then down to 2, it would be blocked.

Can someone tell me what they were doing wrong? I'm assuming that they rotated the linkage over too far one way, and then too far another way. But is there a chance anything is bent or broken in there? And I need to worry about some cludged fix where they bent something back?

[Tcoat]

The gating on these is very tight and if they misaligned any of the bushings or tabs it will throw it off enough to miss the gate. If working properly now there should be nothing to worry about. Misaligned shifters is fairly common after tranny work on these.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

Hi. We have a 2018 86 GT. Love the car. It's actually my daughter's. I have a question about shifter alignment.

It started making a noise. She brought it to me and I said it sounded like the throw out bearing. She took it to the local dealer.

STRIKE ONE: They could not hear the sound. They even got their "master technician" and he said he couldn't hear it - even though my daughter could hear it at the time. The guy even stalled the car when he was pushing the clutch in and out.

So I told her to take it to a Subaru dealer and see what they said. The guy there, in 3 seconds, told her that her throwout bearing was making noise. Of course they can't do Toyota warranty work. So she went back to the dealer to have them fix it. They almost reluctantly agreed to check it out. They finally agreed it was the throw out bearing and fixed it.

STRIKE TWO: My daughter picked it up and noticed the shifter gates were wrong. The 1/2 throw was like 1/4" away from the 3/4 throw and there was maybe a 2" space between 3/4 and 5/6. Also the shift knob was crooked AND the dash gear number indicator wasn't working.

WHAT SLOPPY WORK? WHY DIDN'T THEY FIRST NOTICE THAT THE GATES WERE MESSED UP.

STRIKE THREE: I took it back and they insinuated the close gates was normal. But they fixed it and when I went back, the light worked, the shifter knob was no longer twisted, and the gates were equal. BUT now it would not go into 1 or 2 easily. The service rep, the manager and the tech guy all insisted it was correct. But I finally got another technician there to admit is was all wrong.

I'm thinking they don't know how to shift. Which isn't surprising.

What it did was, for example, if you pushed the shift lever all the way to the left, against the hard stop, to slide up to 1 or down to 2, it would not go into 1 or 2. You had to release pressure so the lever would spring over 1/4" to go around the blockage. Similarly, if you were downshifting from 3 to 2, sliding the lever down out of 3, against the "wall" and then down to 2, it would be blocked.

Can someone tell me what they were doing wrong? I'm assuming that they rotated the linkage over too far one way, and then too far another way. But is there a chance anything is bent or broken in there? And I need to worry about some cludged fix where they bent something back?

Hello Jay Laifman and welcome to ye ol forum -

Did you buy the car new?

How many miles on it?

Any power mods?

On my 2013 FR-S when I push the shifter lever all the way over to the left, it will easily go into either 1st or 2nd gear - so, yours should too.

I reckon if you keep taking it back to the dealer, eventually they will get it right -

Maybe our resident shifter expert @Ultramaroon , could give you some insight - I'll ring him up.


humfrz

[Jay Laifman]

FYI, I picked up the car. It is admittedly back to the way it was when we bought it new earlier this year.

They said that the guy set the "carousel" incorrectly. Does that seem to answer these issues above? Is there still a possibility they damaged anything?

After all the issues they did wrong, it makes me have to wonder if the throw out bearing change was done properly.

[Jay Laifman]

Whoops. I just posted that and didn't see the two responses.

Thanks guys. Yes, we bought it new, and it has less than 3,000 miles on it. No mods at all. I've got other cars with mods - including with flat 4s. This one I think is marvelous as a perfect sports car as it is.

My daughter has been on the track in my other cars. But we haven't had the chance yet with this one. But we will...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

Whoops. I just posted that and didn't see the two responses.

Thanks guys. Yes, we bought it new, and it has less than 3,000 miles on it.

At 3,000 miles I doubt there was anything wrong with TOB to start with but if they changed it then there is little they could do to mess it up.
Tell your daughter that listens for weird noises in these cars will drive her insane. They make very different sounds than many cars and even the noises others make that you don't hear stand out. Worrying about noises in these cars is a certain road to madness.

[SpencerR]

Sounds like they misaligned the reverse lockout plate too far to the left, causing the shifter to get stuck in a kind of gray area between the 1-2 gates and reverse

[Ultramaroon]

^^this^^

[Jay Laifman]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

At 3,000 miles I doubt there was anything wrong with TOB to start with but if they changed it then there is little they could do to mess it up.
Tell your daughter that listens for weird noises in these cars will drive her insane. They make very different sounds than many cars and even the noises others make that you don't hear stand out. Worrying about noises in these cars is a certain road to madness.

In defense of my daughter, the car was definitely making a strange noise when the clutch was depressed that it was not making before. And that's the real delta - did something change? Which leads to the concern that it will change further and get worse. And she is definitely used to very noisy engines!

But I do know exactly what you are saying and you're 100% right!

[Jay Laifman]

New change noted. Maybe Tcoat's advice applies here. But, I'll ask just the same.

Now that they've changed the the TOB, the clutch pedal travel is shorter. We're not noticing any grinding or anything suggesting it's not getting full release. But, it's odd that it's different. I'm not sure what they would have done to cause the clutch pedal throw to change.

I have heard of FRS/BRZ people shortening the clutch master rod to shorten the pedal travel. But I think that is bunk, on the boarder of bad. You can't shorten the throw by shortening the rod. All you do is give the pedal less travel before it hits the firewall. All that does is risk having too little travel and not getting full clutch release, and resulting premature clutch failure and worn synchros.

But, similarly unless the new TOB arm has a different angle creating a different ratio, I can't see how this job would have changed anything. But it did.

Since I have no confidence in the quality of the work, I have to inquire if this is an issue.

[Ultramaroon]

Maybe the mechanic was practicing.

[fistpoint]

Replaced my clutch(also due to bad throwout bearing) at 72k miles recently. And I too had the same issues with my shift gate. The solution is simple and the problem the same: it required putting the shifter into 2nd gear and using a feeler gauge to make the space before tightening.

In other words, both your and my "mechanic" were apparently too good to read instructions and just turned screws assuming that is all that was needed.

2nd gear, hold gauge, turn screw...how hard could that have been? Do Chiltons manuals not exist anymore? What are these clown techs(not mechanics) using nowadays if anything at all?

[Jay Laifman]

New, but related, issue. Ever since they replaced the TOB, shifting into 1st and 2nd when the car is cold is really hard and notchy. I really have to press hard to get it to go. After it warms up a bit, it gets smoother. But it was never like this before.

Thoughts?
Clutch not fully releasing?
Is that because replacement TOB not exactly the same, maybe a little shorter?
Could the fluid in the clutch have been disturbed during the transmission removal, and not properly bled again?
Could they have replaced the transmission fluid and gone with one that is not good in the cold? Note though we're talking a frigid 50* outside, if even that cold.

Thanks for any thoughts.

I will add that once warm, it seems to shift better than ever before.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

New, but related, issue. Ever since they replaced the TOB, shifting into 1st and 2nd when the car is cold is really hard and notchy. I really have to press hard to get it to go. After it warms up a bit, it gets smoother. But it was never like this before.

Thoughts?
Clutch not fully releasing?
Is that because replacement TOB not exactly the same, maybe a little shorter?
Could the fluid in the clutch have been disturbed during the transmission removal, and not properly bled again?
Could they have replaced the transmission fluid and gone with one that is not good in the cold? Note though we're talking a frigid 50* outside, if even that cold.

Thanks for any thoughts.

I will add that once warm, it seems to shift better than ever before.

Hi ya, Jay Laifman.

So, your transmission shifted just fine before you had the TOB replaced.

What kind of oil did you have in the transmission before the clutch was worked on? What kind did they refill it with?

Are you sure the transmission is completely full?

I would suggest you bleed the hydraulic clutch system.

Also, you may consider adjusting the clutch.

Who did the work? Dealer, yourself, a shop?

You also may wish to take it back to whoever replaced the TOB and tell them that your transmission just ain't working right - and ask them to fix it.


humfrz