What do you drive - MT or AT?

[itisthumper]

Ive owned 2 MTs and and 2 ATs throughout my life (and still have one that I rarely drive now). I ended up getting a MT BRZ.

[mit_peid]

BTW, I just have to post this since I found it today:

[/QUOTE]

Congrats!

Do you know where I can get a sticker of that so I can place it on my FR-S AT? I want to grow out my beard, wear a flannel & skinny jeans, and be ironic with all the hipsters in Silverlake and Echo Park.

[Ocala FR-S]

At the risk of challenging a comment supportive of my opinion on the considerable advances in technology of automatic transmissions, I have to point out the following. The higher mpg of the FR-S automatic is largely attributable to the auto tranny having considerably higher gear ratios than that of the Manual tranny. It maintains lower RPMs in a given gear at a given speed compared to the manual. It is not really due to any technological advances in the automatic. In trade for higher mpg, we auto owners endure slower acceleration due to the taller gears.

Originally Posted by jmaryt

things HAVE changed but a "slush" box is still a slush box to a lot of people who have only driven a manual all their lives! the simple fact that the slush gets better gas mileage in highway driving is a clue that much HAS changed!

[Jaylyons1]

MT here. I can't bring myself to purchase an AT no matter what it is. The ones that would be better off as an AT are too far out of my price range anyway.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ocala FR-S

You're kiding, right? Let's see..... the 1985 MR2 was available with a four speed automatic, no sport mode, no paddles and no rev matching. Basically like most automatic cars back in the day. It's dreadfully obvious that since then, alot has changed.

.

What's the matter, you can't recognize sarcasm? No shit that automatics have changed. When I said nothing changed, I was joking about your statement that "...back in the day the automatic tramsmission alternative was unacceptable."

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by mit_peid

BTW, I just have to post this since I found it today:



Congrats!

Do you know where I can get a sticker of that so I can place it on my FR-S AT? I want to grow out my beard, wear a flannel & skinny jeans, and be ironic with all the hipsters in Silverlake and Echo Park.

They only sell them to MT drivers

BTW, hipsters don't drive MT.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Ocala FR-S

At the risk of challenging a comment supportive of my opinion on the considerable advances in technology of automatic transmissions, I have to point out the following. The higher mpg of the FR-S automatic is largely attributable to the auto tranny having considerably higher gear ratios than that of the Manual tranny. It maintains lower RPMs in a given gear at a given speed compared to the manual. It is not really due to any technological advances in the automatic. In trade for higher mpg, we auto owners endure slower acceleration due to the taller gears.

yes! i know this! so the question begs! are the refinements to the torque converter responsible for the advancements? i guess it's the only option left!

[mit_peid]

I'm totally ignorant here, but my guess is that the advances in software and computers are mostly behind things. Perhaps the TC got more reliable and faster too, but the brain on the FR-S AT must actually be quite advanced. It takes in inputs from all the subsystem/sensors from all around the car and is able to determine quite accurately what is going on and predict what should happen next. For instance hard braking with a slight turn in the steering wheel could mean X, Y, Z and probably not A, B, C. Having the car in Sport mode probably means the driver wants to get from A to B as fast as possible so the car won't shift until it can best maximize the band in engine that does this best. I am simplifying things, but there is obviously tons of data to be collected everywhere in the car. There shouldn't be a surprise that a computer can do process a lot of data better and faster than a human can. As long as things are deterministic, then I'll happily hand over the decision making over to a computer as long as I still have my fun.

I'm half joking but just a heads up to the MT devotees clinging onto old-school shifting too blindly, your MT will go by the way of the abacus before you know it. I can just hear the abacus devotees trying to convince how the feel of the abacus is better than the TI-84 (or whatever they are making now).

[Ocala FR-S]

I was referring to advancements such as paddle shifters for driver gear selection and electronic options like sport mode. Preformance stuff. I don't believe that automatic transmissions yet inherently provide mpg advantage over manual. I would think that gearing and shift points being the same, a manual would be as efficient or more so.

I would assume torque converters are marginallly improving over time, but the only real leap in that realm are the relatively cost prohibitive dual clutch setups.

Originally Posted by jmaryt

yes! i know this! so the question begs! are the refinements to the torque converter responsible for the advancements? i guess it's the only option left!

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by mit_peid

I'm half joking but just a heads up to the MT devotees clinging onto old-school shifting too blindly, your MT will go by the way of the abacus before you know it.

Yeah, I've been hearing that for years now. Yet there are still LOTS of cars available in the North American market that still offer MT.

Here's a little list that I compiled last year for a different forum. Of course this is before the FR-S/BRZ, so they aren't even on the list. The yellow highlight indicates 6-speed cars and the red highlight indicates 5-speed cars. The cars with both yellow & red indicate that both 6- and 5-speeds are available. And of course the new Porsche 911 has a 7-speed manual transmission. Anyway, the point is that there are still lots of stickshift cars out there and they ain't going away any time soon.

[rikdrt1]

Originally Posted by Ocala FR-S

I was referring to advancements such as paddle shifters for driver gear selection and electronic options like sport mode. Preformance stuff. I don't believe that automatic transmissions yet inherently provide mpg advantage over manual. I would think that gearing and shift points being the same, a manual would be as efficient or more so.

I would assume torque converters are marginallly improving over time, but the only real leap in that realm are the relatively cost prohibitive dual clutch setups.

I hear both sides, but just as a dumb user.. an older dum user growing up with nothing but MT -- i can say i am still impressed with the MPG of this car driving up and own the hills here in CA. .. in the AT format -

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Ocala FR-S

I was referring to advancements such as paddle shifters for driver gear selection and electronic options like sport mode. Preformance stuff. I don't believe that automatic transmissions yet inherently provide mpg advantage over manual. I would think that gearing and shift points being the same, a manual would be as efficient or more so.

I would assume torque converters are marginallly improving over time, but the only real leap in that realm are the relatively cost prohibitive dual clutch setups.

but they do apparently! the slush gets 34 m.p.g on the highway,which is kinda shocking,but the gearing is different,as you pointed out!

[Moshpit37]

If this were my second (or third, etc..) car, I probably would have gotten a MT. However, this is my one and only, daily driven car. I have only ever owned automatics my entire driving life (roughly 14 years now), but I recently learned how to drive a stick (albeit in a right-hand drive Toyota Hilux truck in the sandbox of Afghanistan.) For now, I prefer the better MPGs and having the options that the AT affords me. Shifting is fun, I agree, but I wasn't comfortable enough to go with a MT this time around.

[Jose Carumba]

I have owned MTs for my entire life ('66 bug, '67 Datsun 1600 roadster, '71 Ford Courier, TR-6, '77 Alfa, '76 Spitfire, '89 Civic, '01 Accord). I swore I would never own an automatic..., until I drove the FR-S AT. It opened my eyes as to what a modern automatic can do. Some Porsche friends have compared it to the Porsche PDK, saying it was just about as good. All I know is that the quick shifts and rev matching are great for spirited driving while auto mode is great for my commute.