Results of the Valve Spring Recall Work

[Magoo]

UPDATE: I have my car back. I took it from Toyota of Santa Cruz to Garage One in Campbell. The car runs great, the engine bay is shiny, and I have a 3-Year Warranty. It ended up costing less than what Toyota wanted, so fuck them.

They found the oil pickup tube in the old engine was ~25% blocked with black silicone bits, and I am paying them to tear-down the old block and document what they find. I will hold on to the affected bits for... I don't know... "evidence"? For whatever comes next.

Anyone using a lawyer for this type of thing? I hope there's going to be a class-action suit.

[PWBRZ]

Originally Posted by Magoo

UPDATE: I have my car back. I took it from Toyota of Santa Cruz to Garage One in Campbell. The car runs great, the engine bay is shiny, and I have a 3-Year Warranty. It ended up costing less than what Toyota wanted, so fuck them.

They found the oil pickup tube in the old engine was ~25% blocked with black silicone bits, and I am paying them to tear-down the old block and document what they find. I will hold on to the affected bits for... I don't know... "evidence"? For whatever comes next.

Anyone using a lawyer for this type of thing? I hope there's going to be a class-action suit.

Glad to hear you’re finally on the road again - quite a fiasco with that dealership. I live about a half mile from Garage One Subaru (Campbell). I had them install stainless brake lines no long ago and always get my engine oil from them (Eneos Sustina 5w-30). They strike me as a reliable place to have something as in-depth as the recall work done. Wish I could take it there... or Mann Engineering.

I haven’t heard anything about a class action suit... yet


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[ybotspawn]

Originally Posted by PWBRZ

Glad to hear you’re finally on the road again - quite a fiasco with that dealership. I live about a half mile from Garage One Subaru (Campbell). I had them install stainless brake lines no long ago and always get my engine oil from them (Eneos Sustina 5w-30). They strike me as a reliable place to have something as in-depth as the recall work done. Wish I could take it there... or Mann Engineering.

I haven’t heard anything about a class action suit... yet


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As has been said many times, this is a dealer issue. There will be no class action law suit against the hundreds of dealers. Even if there was, the only one who would profit would be the lawyers.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ybotspawn

As has been said many times, this is a dealer issue. There will be no class action law suit against the hundreds of dealers. Even if there was, the only one who would profit would be the lawyers.

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Yep! There could be a couple of isolated cases where a one on one suit between an owner and a dealer may be warranted but a class action suit would not go anyplace. There was an issue with the instructions. Subaru recognized that issue. They wrote much more precise instructions and passed them on to Toyota. Toyota and Subaru did the proper things and although that doesn't help the few that had failures early on they are legally squeaky clean on this.
Now, the guys that were refused replacements for their failed engines would certainly be advised to at least speak wit a lawyer since on an individual basis against that particular dealer would probably be an open a shut case in civil court. Magoo would probably win the case in a heartbeat.

[Turbo]

Originally Posted by Magoo

They found the oil pickup tube in the old engine was ~25% blocked with black silicone bits, and I am paying them to tear-down the old block and document what they find. I will hold on to the affected bits for... I don't know... "evidence"? For whatever comes next.

Anyone using a lawyer for this type of thing? I hope there's going to be a class-action suit.

Why wait for a class action suit?

If it were me I would contact Toyota/Subaru Corporate and explain the situation, send the mechanic's report and bill and ask for reimbursement.

If I didn't get resolution within 7 days I would prepare paperwork to file a lawsuit against the dealer and Corporate body for the entire cost of the bill to get it remedied at the other mechanic, plus costs, plus damages and send it to both and give them 7 days to respond.


After that -if they didn't pony up- I would file it and send a copy to Drivetribe, Drive and Jalopnik to be publicized.

[ybotspawn]

Originally Posted by Turbo

Why wait for a class action suit?

If it were me I would contact Toyota/Subaru Corporate and explain the situation, send the mechanic's report and bill and ask for reimbursement.

If I didn't get resolution within 7 days I would prepare paperwork to file a lawsuit against the dealer and Corporate body for the entire cost of the bill to get it remedied at the other mechanic, plus costs, plus damages and send it to both and give them 7 days to respond.


After that -if they didn't pony up- I would file it and send a copy to Drivetribe, Drive and Jalopnik to be publicized.

Like @Tcoat and I mention above... Subaru and Toyota are squeeky clean on this one. It's the dealer that boned it up. That will not be a class action.

[007BRZ]

If there was debris causing an oil failure and your repair shop will attest to it, I would seek an attorney. Toyota will fold on that issue. as of last month there were 17 know FA20 failures on replaced spring recalls. 2 were Subaru, 15 have been Toyota FRS's. There techs don't know how to do the recall and your lawyer can use that type of info.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 007BRZ

If there was debris causing an oil failure and your repair shop will attest to it, I would seek an attorney. Toyota will fold on that issue. as of last month there were 17 know FA20 failures on replaced spring recalls. 2 were Subaru, 15 have been Toyota FRS's. There techs don't know how to do the recall and your lawyer can use that type of info.

Your numbers are way off. Closer to 50 total now. The instructions have been fixed so hopefully we are near the end of them though.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ybotspawn

Like @Tcoat and I mention above... Subaru and Toyota are squeeky clean on this one. It's the dealer that boned it up. That will not be a class action.

Yep. The dealers are not "Toyota" or "Subaru" cooperate entities. They are privately owned companies that pay Toyota a fee to sell their product and buy their stock. The recall work is not warrantied by Toyota or Subaru and it is the sole responsibility of the dealerships to ensure it is done right or make amends if they screw up. I suppose a case could be made that the corporate team failed to give adequate instruction to the techs but they did specify right in the original notice that the work should be done by a master tech so they could use that as an out if the dealers fought back too hard.

[Turbo]

Originally Posted by ybotspawn

Like @Tcoat and I mention above... Subaru and Toyota are squeeky clean on this one. It's the dealer that boned it up. That will not be a class action.

I did NOT say to wait for a class action suit......


I tossed out the idea of suing both the dealer and Corporate on the same statement of claim. There is EASILY grounds for a claim against Corporate arguing insufficient or defective training of their "factory certified technicians".

More importantly - it pits dealer against Corporate, with the quickest path to a defense being pointing the finger at each other. And that likely would become a 'joint and several' judgement against them both if they can't sort out who is liable for how much to the judge's satisfaction. You need to include them both in the suit or else whoever you DO sue has an "out" for their defense in blaming the other.


I seriously doubt Corporate would even let it go to trial. If they lose and it's written up on Drive, Jalonik or Drivetribe, they're fucked.

[ybotspawn]

Originally Posted by Turbo

I did NOT say to wait for a class action suit......


I tossed out the idea of suing both the dealer and Corporate on the same statement of claim. There is EASILY grounds for a claim against Corporate arguing insufficient or defective training of their "factory certified technicians".

More importantly - it pits dealer against Corporate, with the quickest path to a defense being pointing the finger at each other. And that likely would become a 'joint and several' judgement against them both if they can't sort out who is liable for how much to the judge's satisfaction. You need to include them both in the suit or else whoever you DO sue has an "out" for their defense in blaming the other.


I seriously doubt Corporate would even let it go to trial. If they lose and it's written up on Drive, Jalonik or Drivetribe, they're fucked.

I respectively disagree. You don't have a leg to stand on in a law suit against corporate. Any lawyer worth their salt will know this, warn you and bill you accordingly. I'm not a mechanic but I have enough lawyers in my family ( corporate and otherwise ) to have more than a passing familiarity with this kind of suit.

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[Turbo]

Originally Posted by ybotspawn

I respectively disagree. You don't have a leg to stand on in a law suit against corporate. Any lawyer worth their salt will know this, warn you and bill you accordingly. I'm not a mechanic but I have enough lawyers in my family ( corporate and otherwise ) to have more than a passing familiarity with this kind of suit.

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You might, but the lawyers I know don't.

[ybotspawn]

Originally Posted by Turbo

You might, but the lawyers I know don't.

And those would be Canadian lawyers I assume?


Listen I'm not trying to call you out. But telling a group of mostly young kids to spend their money, hire both a local attorney and a corporate one to go after the big beasts that are Subaru and Toyota is not the best advice they can be given. Regardless of what attorneys you spoke with consider the last time, I can remember someone going after any automaker was Robert Kearns. He finally got "justice" 15+ years later. Maybe in Canada suing corporate might work, I can't speak to that. But for your US brothers on this thread I doubt it. Based on the Kearns case, if i were one of the affected owners, I would take any corporate legal advice you give with a grain of salt. Their best mechanism for legal remedy would be exactly what your Canadian compatriot @Tcoat said and talk to a local lawyer for a free consultation and if they're lucky they can get the legal costs (against the dealer) thrown in as a bonus. At the very least, your implication that suing them both will be a grand slam should come with a legal disclaimer of its own..."mileage may vary"


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[Magoo]

UPDATE: California Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) contacted me today, told to gather all my paperwork and photos to send to him.
He will visit Toyota of Santa Cruz and get their side of the story and any paperwork they want to give.
This will end up as a Civil Matter, i.e.: we might go to court over this if mediation between TofSC and myself breaks down.

Shitty, but it is progress.