Supercharged twin vs cayman?

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by PorscheUnlimited16

I’ve extensively did a few autocross events with a friends Supercharged Brz and my own Gt4. I’ve also have some seat time in an Evora 400, m4, my old evo 9 and s2000 (best shifter til this day) While both was tons of fun to hammer down, the Porsche’s response and nature is in every way 1-2 notches up. Everything is crispy. When I hopped back into the Brz I definitely felt like there was a soft cushion between me and everything else’s in the car. The chassis was softer, steering less direct and precise, throttle less responsive, etc... but the fun factor was nearly the same.
As an enthusiast of all cars, just do what your wallet allows and enjoy it.

GT4 is not the base Cayman though. It is evo car of the year after all

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by PorscheUnlimited16

I’ve extensively did a few autocross events with a friends Supercharged Brz and my own Gt4. I’ve also have some seat time in an Evora 400, m4, my old evo 9 and s2000 (best shifter til this day) While both was tons of fun to hammer down, the Porsche’s response and nature is in every way 1-2 notches up. Everything is crispy. When I hopped back into the Brz I definitely felt like there was a soft cushion between me and everything else’s in the car. The chassis was softer, steering less direct and precise, throttle less responsive, etc... but the fun factor was nearly the same.
As an enthusiast of all cars, just do what your wallet allows and enjoy it.

That says it all. I think we'd all have GT4's if we could But for those on a budget (and need a back seat), I'm pretty glad they made the 86. Not to be OT, but what did you think of the Evora?

[PorscheUnlimited16]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

That says it all. I think we'd all have GT4's if we could But for those on a budget (and need a back seat), I'm pretty glad they made the 86. Not to be OT, but what did you think of the Evora?

Throttle response and power was on par. The supercharged Toyota 6 feels very NA as with most super chargers. It’s a bit porkier then it’s porsche counterpart but isn’t any less fun. The exhaust note was actually very pleasant, wasn’t expecting that kind of noise from a Camry derived motor. For auto crossing, it’s gearing and 7k redlines were more favorable then my Gt4s super long gears. Interior is definitely more spartan and noisy. Chassis was wonderful, it’s nearly as flat but I’d give the edge to the gt4 in terms of stiffness. If you guys want gt4 like performance with unusable rear seats like in the 86, this would be the choice. Although.. reliability is out of questions on these. The owner of the Evora 400 told me his car has been in the shop for Random Cels 4 times now with only 10k on the clock.

[Irace86.2.0]

As great as the old GT4 was and still is, the new 718 Cayman S is practically on the same level as the GT4 at an MSRP that is a fraction of the price of a new GT4 and even of many used GT4s. I bring this up because the low end torque of a turbo motor has a real shot of out pacing the GT4 or any other naturally aspirated Porsche Cayman.


A supercharged 86 on E85 would be solid competition for an older (6-cylinder) Cayman, but a turbocharged 86 on E85 would likely do better, just like how the 718 has demonstrated. There is more to it all than power-to-weight, yet there is a compelling reason to conclude that the lighter 86 would do pretty well over the Cayman, at least on track and for objective times.


The track or daily enjoyment is probably close enough that they would be subjective. It isn't like comparing an SUV to a sports car on track, where everyone can easily agree one is at a clear advantage. In this case, I wouldn't leave the decision of which to buy on others.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

As great as the old GT4 was and still is, the new 718 Cayman S is practically on the same level as the GT4 at an MSRP that is a fraction of the price of a new GT4 and even of many used GT4s. I bring this up because the low end torque of a turbo motor has a real shot of out pacing the GT4 or any other naturally aspirated Porsche Cayman.


A supercharged 86 on E85 would be solid competition for an older (6-cylinder) Cayman, but a turbocharged 86 on E85 would likely do better, just like how the 718 has demonstrated. There is more to it all than power-to-weight, yet there is a compelling reason to conclude that the lighter 86 would do pretty well over the Cayman, at least on track and for objective times.


The track or daily enjoyment is probably close enough that they would be subjective. It isn't like comparing an SUV to a sports car on track, where everyone can easily agree one is at a clear advantage. In this case, I wouldn't leave the decision of which to buy on others.

Yuck. Sound horrible. I've heard several around town here - sounds like flatulence.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by the_ging

I guess I should mention that I appreciate the 86, I just think it needs more power and grip. I picked it up new for 20k, so realistically after flex fuel and sc total cost should be around 30. My driving style is from karting, therefore I don't want a drift machine. I want a light, nimble vehicle with loads of grip and some power to exit the corner with from apex out. Aesthetics and creature comforts are a moot point. For me it is a tool. With that being said, which is the best tool? The 86 w/ sc and flex or a Cayman.

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Yuck. Sound horrible. I've heard several around town here - sounds like flatulence.

There is probably a reasonable, objective argument that the new Cayman has a worse sound than the old, but that doesn't seem to be the OP's focus for this thread.


I doubt a newer or even newish/used Cayman is on the list. Sounds like the OP is in the market for a used 987 base or s, or maybe a base 981, but most of those seem to be in the low to mid 30's, and the S models are $40k+, so if we are talking first gen Cayman then a base model wouldn't be much competition to an 86 on E85 and the S wouldn't fair much better. Both would have less power and weigh more.

[PorscheUnlimited16]

If we are speaking in terms of value, Porsche will never be apart of that conversation. The Porsche tax is next level indeed but everything is relative ain’t it. For this amount of X money you can make a Na Miata way faster around the track then any 86 or Porsche.. to the OP, a 987 cayman is older tech and IMO uglier then the 86 but the foundation is more rooted towards motor sports. Prepare to spend more on the Porsche even when compared to an out of warranty 86.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

As great as the old GT4 was and still is, the new 718 Cayman S is practically on the same level as the GT4 at an MSRP that is a fraction of the price of a new GT4 and even of many used GT4s. I bring this up because the low end torque of a turbo motor has a real shot of out pacing the GT4 or any other naturally aspirated Porsche Cayman.

Not around a track it's not. Though that's not a priority for most people.

There's a reason that 987.2's and 981's command such high resale value. Most Porsche-philes aren't torque junkies.

sound > torque

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Not around a track it's not. Though that's not a priority for most people.

There's a reason that 987.2's and 981's command such high resale value. Most Porsche-philes aren't torque junkies.

sound > torque

Actually...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGZ04_HLac[/ame]

[WolfpackS2k]

significantly slower around VIR, beats me.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

significantly slower around VIR, beats me.

Im sure it depends on the track and driver, but I trust Randy when he says the 718 S with R compound tires would make it one sided. Plus, the GT4 they used was modified enough that Randy could tell it didn’t have the understeer he was use to feeling. Lastly, the 718 S is definitely easier to extract more power because of the turbo, so I’m sure it could be lightly tuned to smoke the GT4, but I agree that the GT4 is compelling on sound alone.

[PorscheUnlimited16]

I’ve recently taken my Porsche in for service and they talked me into test driving a few newer vehicles. They put me in a 991.2 GTS... I drove that thing around for about 15 miles while waiting for my car to be pulled out... felt exactly like my Wife’s full bolt on 435i Msport with a tune. The sound was so neutered. I mean they’re both 3.0 liter turbo vehicles so I figured that much but gosh so dam similar. Torque is fun but it makes it less rewarding to wind out a car to redline, especially a Naturally aspirated Porsche. I’m currently at a position where I don’t want to buy a new Porsche with these turbo’d engines but cant comfortably afford a new higher end GT car either...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Im sure it depends on the track and driver, but I trust Randy when he says the 718 S with R compound tires would make it one sided.

He said it would make the 718 S "as quick, if not quicker than...", not that it would be one-sided in the 718's favor. Not that i care, I like the 987.2 R better than either and for sure it's a lot slower...

Plus, the GT4 they used was modified enough that Randy could tell it didn’t have the understeer he was use to feeling.

I'm pretty sure the GT-4 comes with adjustable front lower control arms, so getting an alignment with decent front camber is possible without mods.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Im sure it depends on the track and driver, but I trust Randy when he says the 718 S with R compound tires would make it one sided. Plus, the GT4 they used was modified enough that Randy could tell it didn’t have the understeer he was use to feeling. Lastly, the 718 S is definitely easier to extract more power because of the turbo, so I’m sure it could be lightly tuned to smoke the GT4, but I agree that the GT4 is compelling on sound alone.

Turbo cars do have that advantage, however a GT4 is already so fast and capable that very few of us even have the ability to fully take advantage of what it already offers.

Originally Posted by ZDan

He said it would make the 718 S "as quick, if not quicker than...", not that it would be one-sided in the 718's favor. Not that i care, I like the 987.2 R better than either and for sure it's a lot slower...

I'm pretty sure the GT-4 comes with adjustable front lower control arms, so getting an alignment with decent front camber is possible without mods.

I believe it does. Plus all Caymans have slotted upper strut mounts and eccentric bolts front and rear so there is some camber adjustment built in from factory. Not a lot, but more than most cars.