i just realized... 2016 turbo 4cyl CAMARO vs FRS/BRZ

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Cole

Maybe being a young buck, I don't have the hatred towards a new gen muscle car with a turbo 4 power plant. But anyone who wants to talk down on it, needs to look at what MAPerformance is doing with the Mustangs turbo 4

I have no hatred for it, I think its great progress (I did say after all I would buy one, just not for me), and am not sure why they even still offer the V6 other than I guess they think they can sell them.


My primary reason for buying the V8 is that I'm always going to buy the version of a specific model with the most power out of the gate rather than spending an equal amount of money to bring a "lesser" model up to speed. Factory power always trumps equal levels of aftermarket power to me. Also, remember I really only daily drive my cars, so I'm not race prepping.


Even if I was building a race car, why wouldn't I start with the V8 and go up from there, rather than starting further back and having to catch up?

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Also, remember I really only daily drive my cars, so I'm not race prepping.

Looks at avatar, looks at this statement, looks at avatar again.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Looks at avatar, looks at this statement, looks at avatar again.

Avatar is from the Mario Andretti Race Experience.


See here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=252


I gave up racing my own cars a long time ago.

[jvincent]

Fair enough. Just pulling your leg a little.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I have no hatred for it, I think its great progress (I did say after all I would buy one, just not for me), and am not sure why they even still offer the V6 other than I guess they think they can sell them.


My primary reason for buying the V8 is that I'm always going to buy the version of a specific model with the most power out of the gate rather than spending an equal amount of money to bring a "lesser" model up to speed. Factory power always trumps equal levels of aftermarket power to me. Also, remember I really only daily drive my cars, so I'm not race prepping.


Even if I was building a race car, why wouldn't I start with the V8 and go up from there, rather than starting further back and having to catch up?

That's fair, price difference is substantial though, and if you can get more power out of the T4 (with mods of course) For less money than the V8 base cost, I'd be game for doing that right off the hop. But I like turbos, and saving money on gas is a plus too

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Cole

That's fair, price difference is substantial though, and if you can get more power out of the T4 (with mods of course) For less money than the V8 base cost, I'd be game for doing that right off the hop. But I like turbos, and saving money on gas is a plus too

Understood, and that makes sense if you want to go that route, no issues from me.


Fuel cost (savings) doesn't really play into the equation much for me. In the end, its such a small part of the overall picture. I'll give you an example as I happen to track this.


My last Daily Driver averaged 17.5MPG over 289,000 miles. The FR-S has averaged 32.7MPG over 68,000 miles.
Based on that I have saved (in fuel) in 3 years and 5 months $5,051.45 in fuel costs (including the difference between 87 and 93 octane), or about $5.91 per day vs $10.08 a day. But to do that, I had to pay $26,000 for the car. Not a great ROI on that.


Also, as a daily driver (and again personal preference because I drive a car as long as I can repair it reasonably) I'd rather have a V8 lumbering along than a turbocharged 4 running at the edge of its design tolerance. In my driving I would expect to easily get 200,000 miles out of about any factory v8, not so much out of a modded T4.


It's all about your mission for the car.

[Cole]

@Dadhawk realistically for myself, if I was to get rid of my FRS, it would be for either the T4 Camaro or Mustang (catch up already, dodge) and the most it would get is a tune(and lots of suspension work because #framebanggang). It's a hard pill to swallow when the Mustang is about 7k difference between the turbo and the V8, and I'm not sure what the Camaro is, haven't looked into it.

So with that difference in price, and not a terrible gap in performance, there's a lot of extra money for parts left over. I don't rack up a lot of miles, so longevity doesn't seem as much a problem for me as you. Though, I used to make transmission parts for GM, and the quality of the parts from that factory was so-so And that's always in the back of my mind when it comes to American made cars.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Cole

..It's a hard pill to swallow when the Mustang is about 7k difference between the turbo and the V8, and I'm not sure what the Camaro is, haven't looked into it.

Well, part of the problem is the T4 and the V8 base models aren't really the same overall car so its hard to say. Best I could find was this

Originally Posted by AutoBlog

Parking the new 2016 Chevrolet Camaro in your driveway will cost $26,695, including the $995 destination charge. That's a cut from $27,000 for the same trim on a 2015 Camaro. If you prefer a V8 under the hood, then the base 1SS goes for $37,295, compared to $34,500 for that model currently.

so the difference is north of $1,000.

Originally Posted by Cole

....Though, I used to make transmission parts for GM, and the quality of the parts from that factory was so-so And that's always in the back of my mind when it comes to American made cars.

Interesting. My experience is different. I've had 3 GM vehicles (one car, two trucks) go well over 200,000 miles with no transmission issues but again it all depends on how they are being used.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Based on that I have saved (in fuel) in 3 years and 5 months $5,051.45 in fuel costs (including the difference between 87 and 93 octane), or about $5.91 per day vs $10.08 a day. But to do that, I had to pay $26,000 for the car. Not a great ROI on that.

$5000 in savings over 4 years is pretty substantial if you ask me. I also like to look at the big picture and imagine that I will be driving this car for the next 8 years at least and now you're talking over $10000 in savings. Effectively your new $26000 car is now at $16000 on fuel savings alone, assuming all of the major parts hold up that long.

Now to be fair, when comparing the new Camaro V8 to the T4, the fuel economy deficit will not be that huge and I think fuel economy is a silly thing to worry about when buying a sports car anyway.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

$5000 in savings over 4 years is pretty substantial if you ask me. I also like to look at the big picture and imagine that I will be driving this car for the next 8 years at least and now you're talking over $10000 in savings. Effectively your new $26000 car is now at $16000 on fuel savings alone, assuming all of the major parts hold up that long.

But I didn't really save $5000, all I did was recoup $5000 of the money I spent on the 86. It would be 20 years before I actually saved money all other things being equal.

I do agree it seems silly to worry about mpg when buying a sports car, but it can be a consideration as a tie breaker.

[Fishbed77]

I do agree it seems silly to worry about mpg when buying a sports car, but it can be a consideration as a tie breaker.

It's not silly at all.

My 2013 FR-S gets literally twice the fuel mileage as my previous daily driver (a 2001 Nissan Xterra). Even using 93 octane, that's a considerable monetary savings for me.

[chezzy79]

If I didn't care about MPG at all, I would've bought a 2008 M6 from Canada for like 33k with 15k miles on it... V10 and 10/16 mpg haha

[caliprep]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Buy the Camaro or don't. Get an BRZ/FRS or don't. You don't need forum posts to support your decision do you? The FT86Club forum may curse you if you get a Comaro but you will make new "friends" at the Chevy forum.
The world will not implode due to your car purchasing decision.

If you posted a thread in the chevy forums about getting a twin....You would get laughed at.


TS = WTF.

[ultra]

This chassis in its ATS incarnation is being compared favorably to the BMW 3 series range so in Camaro form it ought to be quite an impressive handler right out of the box.

I think you'd have to be crazy to put too much money into modding a turbo 4 Camaro though because unlike like the Twins there's a "factory V8 swapped" version available with tons and tons of fully warrantied torque and power on tap, which begins to make more and more sense the more $$$ you'd throw at the 4 banger. There's basically a 'tipping point' beyond which the v4 Camaro simply won't make much sense versus the v8 model even if it is quicker than the Twins, Miata etc.

A lightly modded turbo 4 Camaro will no doubt be leagues quicker than the Twins in addition to handling quite well (assuming the chassis is as well set up in the Camaro as it is in the ATS) but I'm also fairly confident that the Twins will have an edge in terms of offering a more engaging, 'enthusiast' style driving experience. There'll also be a certain number of folks who is o,y prefer the sports car 'looks' and whatnot. The real questions is how many of people will care enough about those ''intangibles' to actually buy the car.

With low end muscle cars on one side, hot hatches on the other side (GTI, Focus ST, new Civic Si/Type R) and the Miata right up alongside there's no doubt that the Twins will have lots of competition.

Fun times.

Confession: I'm seriously contemplating replacing my 86 with the ZL1 version of the new Camaro depending how things shape up.