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Old 06-27-2012, 03:23 AM   #43
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BTW, high school is by no means a measurement of smart.
Especially with No Child Left Behind - I'm not saying its bad program, it just makes school stupidly easy for most.
I fell asleep everyday in class and walked out with no interest in school ever again.
Thank goodness college is a bit more difficult and stimulating.
Knowing me at 16 I'd have been too curious and turn off the TSC - now I don't even consider touching that button until I finish the "break-in" (if such a thing exists) and then hit the tracks with an experienced person.

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Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Skyline364, none of the reasonable advice (and not all of it is, it is the Internet after all) has to do with intelligence. It has to do with experience, which despite what you think, you don't have.

(Can't believe I'm doing this, I should probably get in my rocking chair first)

First, just because everyone at your school has what you say they have, doesn't make it right. There were kids at my high school like that too. Most of the cars did not go unscathed, but some did. Maybe you'll be the exception, maybe not.

By the time I got my license, I was "pretty smart" too. I was at the top of my class in high school (gave the commencement speech at graduation), I had a full time job, I had been riding dirt bikes/go carts/minibikes since I was 7, had been driving large farm equipment since I was 10 and had even driven some really obscenely fast wicked rear-end, no traction control cars (my Dad was a dirt track guy who didn't know better than to let me drive them around the track or "in the woods").

Guess what, despite all that, I damaged or dinged up my first street car no fewer than 5 times in the two years I had it, mainly because I thought I knew what I was doing. I wasn't unsafe, I was just "too smart" for the experience level I had and thought I could do things I wasn't ready for.

Fortunately, it was a $300 car (probably equivalent of a $3000 these days) so no real harm/no foul. I enjoyed fixing it back up after each ding.

If you and your parents are willing to assume that risk, than good for you, just follow some simple rules:
  • Don't race it, regardless of what people say or do.
  • Don't turn off any of the traction control on the streets.
  • If you want to do either of the above, get professional training first and only do it in a controlled environment.
  • Remember that every driver, regardless of age or experience, needs to remember that they are probably not as good as they think they are, and can easily get into situations they can't get themselves out of, you are no different.
Best of luck to you!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:43 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by skyline364 View Post
Actually I maybe 16 but its not like i'm stupid. Thats just stereotypical. I am the top student in my school with a 98% average and i have a job which goes to paying half half with my parents. Not all 16 year olds drivers are wreckless. My school also is filled with bmw m3's, mercedes and mustangs so dont just assume my parents have poor judgement as they dont. What if somebody said that about your parents?
'may be' 'it's' 'Reckless'... And please use the Oxford comma. I apologize, but I really can't stand to read a post from someone espousing their intellect when it contains obvious spelling and grammatical errors.

I'll just correct this for you here. I don't think I'll correct all of the more innocuous grammatical mistakes, but I encourage you to spend more time exploring some literary pursuits.

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Originally Posted by skyline364 View Post
Actually, I may be 16, but it's not like I'm stupid. That's just stereotypical. I am the top student in my school with a 98% average, and I have a job which goes towards paying 'half half' with my parents. Not all 16-year old drivers are reckless. My school is filled with BMW M3's, Mercedes, and Mustangs, so don't just assume my parents have poor judgement, as they don't. What if somebody said that about your parents?
I can understand the reason you feel that way, and I wish you the best in your endeavors. I truly hope you are a much more conscientious driver than I was when I was 16. Please just realize that you really aren't doing yourself any favors by trying to come across the way you did in that post.

Sorry!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:45 AM   #45
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Pretty sure I fall under the "Random" buyers segment. I saw the FT-86 Concept a while back and thought "That looks cool, probably won't ever get made though." Then I randomly was browsing Carsales.com.au and the front page was "GT-86 pricing released". First thought was "wtf, the car is REAL!?!?!?". Read about it in an hour, drove to the dealer, got my car valued and put down the deposit. Better yet, I'm one of the first people in Australia to get the car too delivered.

Couldn't be happier.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:49 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by tripjammer View Post
Giving your kid a cool car like a FR-S is not having poor judgement. It's just being a cool parent. If you are rich, you are not going to have your kid driving in a beat up honda civic. But yeah it is probably going to make our insurance rates go up on the FR-S. But this was going to happen anyways.
Any child of mine is going to have to pay for their own car, as that's the best way to learn the value of hard work and money. Honestly, I wouldn't respect any parent who just handed their kid a brand new car for their 16th birthday. I don't care how much money you have. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but this is how I was raised.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:14 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Symbiont View Post
Any child of mine is going to have to pay for their own car, as that's the best way to learn the value of hard work and money.
Honestly, I wouldn't respect any parent who just handed their kid a brand new car for their 16th birthday. I don't care how much money you have. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but this is how I was raised.

It can go both ways... But the recipient kid will have to learn the hard way when the fact hits him that minimum wage is where all his other buddies earn money hour by hour at their jobs, and when he himself is looking for a job at 16~20 and perhaps, beyond if he doesn't do well in school, or does not learn human relations skills, being spoiled rotten with unlimited wishes.
But for the most part, the kids seem to still behave a lot more criminally and irresponsibly, being jealous of the rich kid or hanging around other under-resourced and under-educated kids as well.

So it's really the parents, communications, and professionalism that the kids really have to master to get anywhere to become adults... And that can succeed or fail, regardless of income, or wealth I think.

I see the point though, where kids just become complete retards when parents themselves try to reflect their own visions, or selfishness and will this upon the kids who really doesn't see good or bad in that...

I think well-resourced parents providing kids with nice expensive new cars, is sometimes a portrayal of the parents self-conscious ego, forced upon the kid who may or may not actually benefit or sometimes even not want this, since he/she might just want to be even with their friends who drive beat-up old cars they bought on their own.
In THAT sense, its completely dumb of a move.

What is really unfortunate in today's world is that money-things are becoming critical to normal lives in modern society. $200 cell phone bills, $60 home FiOS accounts are all, almost necessary to ensure education as more schools require them to stay ahead of other nations. And even then, the USA is 31st in education levels... And most Americans can't even name 30 nations ahead of them, and can NOT even rattle of names of ANY 30 countries at random!

Gone are the days when middle class citizen dads in the USA, worked hard and earned decently, and moms stayed home to keep that head of the house respected, and kids grew up with constant and well-defined guidelines and morals that is normal and standard to at least the community around them.
Today, in any given community, there is such a HUGE gap in income diversity, racial mix, and a lot of animosity and chaos. A city public schools can have foreign students with fathers earning billions back in another nation, and moms who spend half the day in shopping malls walking on $2000 Christian Loubouton shoes and $1600 Hermes Kelly, while in the same class, there can be somebody who's parents work 3 jobs, and still have issues paying rent... And yet others who work 3 jobs paying for the American Express bills that accrued as they pretend to be the case #1 or just trying to belong with the community. None of this was the case in 1970's, and things have shifted to all this in the last 2-3 decades as wealth and economy shifted from industrial age to information age, where the world just became one, single, chaotic environment.

I think a car like the Scion FRS can be to one family, and affordable sports car that dad always wanted within reason, purchased with a 5 year loan. And to another family just down the block in Southern California, a child's new toy, no different in treatment as the new set of LEGO sets or Hot Wheels, the parents bought, since to them, $20 is the same as $30,000, when their bank accounts have 8 figures in liquid deposits.

Whatever the case may be, I think children and teens just need a definition, and some real help in making sense out of all this... And as long as they can, they shall be equipped for the world, regardless of income in the family.
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Last edited by Moto-P; 06-27-2012 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:35 AM   #48
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...Today, in any given community, there is such a HUGE gap in income diversity, racial mix, and a lot of animosity and chaos. A city public schools can have foreign students with fathers earning billions back in another nation, and moms who spend half the day in shopping malls walking on $2000 Christian Loubouton shoes and $1600 Hermes Kelly, while in the same class, there can be somebody who's parents work 3 jobs, and still have issues paying rent... And yet others who work 3 jobs paying for the American Express bills that accrued as they pretend to be the case #1 or just trying to belong with the community. None of this was the case in 1970's, and things have shifted to all this in the last 2-3 decades as wealth and economy shifted from industrial age to information age, where the world just became one, single, chaotic environment.
.....
Moto-P, as usual I agree with 99% of what you wrote in your original post. I do take a little bit of exception with this though. This is not a "new" situation. Perhaps its geography, since I grew up in the South and I'm guessing you grew up in the West, but it was no different when I was in high school.

The public high school I went to back when Disco was King had this same diversity of incomes and such. OK, most folks weren't working to pay off credit cards, that came later, but we had the "rich kids", the "army brats" (I grew up in a military town), the "bad boys" and all the other flavors. We also had a diversity of cultures. In my own social group we had guys like me that paid $300 for their first car, and guys that were handed keys to brand new muscle cars when the turned 15 or at graduation.

Is it worse now, perhaps, but it has always existed within the communities where I have lived. I suspect this goes back to the beginning of "civilization".
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:50 AM   #49
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I'm not sure what happened to my follow up post, but I agree with both @Dadhawk and @Moto-P. I am probably a bit jaded and negative due to the complete sense of entitlement I am surrounded by, which led to my slightly reactionary post.

I can hope that things change for the better, but I don't see this trend reversing any time soon.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:22 PM   #50
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of course you do...you are 19. in a couple years you will probably change your mind and say that 21 is the minimum. i dont disagree with you on what should happen but just why. it isnt a matter of having experience like everyone thinks. even experienced people crash cars. what you need to do is buy a car you can afford to crash. experience or not, things happen. if you cant afford to crash your car, you cant afford your car

hahaha true, but i also meant that also in my post with the addition of experience. Sure you anyone can drive this car but when your young you want to try stupid things, and when you try stupid things you need to be able to afford to repair it if you crash.. as you said
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:39 PM   #51
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Got my license at 16 on my birthday......and got to drive around the family beater until I i proved I was capable of driving on my own. The next year when i turned 17 i started to look for my first car. An s13 240sx fastback that I still daily drive today (until my FR-S comes in that is). Had the 240 for maybe a month and was screwing around late at night on a deserted road. "herp derp, im gonna drop the clutch while making a right turn at a stop light." Left tires on the median.....front tie rod snapped....lesson learned. Dont be stupid with a new car. Learn its tendencies first, take it to the track, and if you do fool around of the street, at least do it where the only person you can hurt is yourself.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:30 PM   #52
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If some kids parents buy him this car...regardless of whether he cracks it up or not, doesn't seem like any of my business.

As for the car itself...hell of a lot safer that the rear wheel drive pony / muscle cars I grew up driving, more HP and torque than these things will ever turn out, no traction control, air bags or any other nanny features these cars have today. All this and in the snow on canyon roads...how did I survive?!?

I know how to drive a rwd car in the snow because I played around with cars in the snow. Seems a lot of people forget that experience is learned from stupidity.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:04 PM   #53
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This thread reminds me of the eerie post on m3 forums. Father buys kid m3. Hs kid no experience acting ****y on forums..suddenly disappeared from forums. Turned out he wrapped the car around a tree with 2 other friends....

Yea sure you can drive a fancy first.car but to me its not worth it. Beater car to gain experience. I crashed my corolla in rain. Lesson learnt. Still driveable just dented lol kept on going. Trust me, when you are young you think of stupidly retarded things to do with your friends.

About being "that guy" that was the cool kid who totaled his 64 mustang fastback. I sorta cried inside when i never saw it again.
.twas a beautiful car.

Also if you get a cheaper dc2 you can have more money to mod and have fun/ learn about cars. GL.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:13 PM   #54
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.Why you guys getting all worked up i pay for most of it and both my parents are doctors and im a machinist and i still have over 10 grand from prize money and i dont plant on turning off traction or stability controlls or learning how to drift. I also dont want to race either because this car is slow compared to other sports cars these days.

Last edited by skyline364; 06-27-2012 at 06:19 PM. Reason: 1
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by theredtape View Post
Be careful with that thing... Your insurance must be through the roof! I think mine was nearly 2000 a year when I was sixteen and I was driving an old slow buick.
Mine was $2400 back in 2000 with a 1996 Ford Contour.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by denkigrve View Post
Put down your pitchfork. He actually said something positive. He didn't say ladies would buy it because it's cute. The OP insinuated that, then he said not quite. He didn't turn "randome people" into ladies like the OP did. He said some of those buyers will enjoy the car. Some of those purchasers will in fact be women.

I think you owe him an apology for knee jerking that reaction of yours. It was in no way negative.
All the women in my office think my FR-S is cute. I, too, think my FR-S is cute--BUT, it's also a hot car with awesome handling and cornering ability, Auto tranny or otherwise.

Yes, mine's an AT. But it's my car, my money, and no one else's business.
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