This is the C8 mid-engine Chevy Corvette

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Plus how much fun would it be cracking off <100ms up/downshifts all day and never crunching gears or accidentally making a 5-4 downshift into a 5-2 and zinging my 2JZ to (calculated, the tach didn't go that high) 9K rpm?

I find the problem with a DCT is that I feel dumb for manually shifting it and just leave it in auto mode on the street so it can handle at least some of the shifts for me. I've only driven a Porsche PDK and an Acura DCT FWIW.

Knowing that the car can shift for you makes me want to just pop it into D. I still end up doing some manual shifts since the car sometimes holds onto gears when I don't want it to, but I don't find it fun, because there's no rev matching and no clutch pedal work.

I will say the paddle shifting on a McLaren looks potentially pretty fun because the latency is close to 0. In that case it would give more of an illusion that you're in full control. Also having the pull-both-paddles-for-neutral function on the GT3 and now this C8 Corvette sounds like it would increase the fun factor.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Plus how much fun would it be cracking off <100ms up/downshifts all day and never crunching gears or accidentally making a 5-4 downshift into a 5-2 and zinging my 2JZ to (calculated, the tach didn't go that high) 9K rpm?

No where near as fun as cracking a 200ms shift manually. If I want to button press I will just race on a computer. I’ve not missed shifted a single time in the FRS. Not to say I haven’t in other cars. I used to own a G35 sedan with 6MT which was the worst MT I’ve owned. I guess some of the people you read about saying they’ve driven MT for years and wouldn’t mind an auto may be coming from gearboxes that suck. The twins are a blast. Most Honda’s are a blast. My dads Boxster, not so much. I’ve driven an E36 and E46 and didn’t like those gearboxes either. I drove a Ford GT once but can’t say much for the gearbox as I made one shift into 2nd and left it there for the whole run which is another issue in itself. It did like 92mph in 2nd. If the C8 got a manual it would probably have really long gears too. I sort of enjoy the busy box in our twins.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Plus how much fun would it be cracking off <100ms up/downshifts all day and never crunching gears or accidentally making a 5-4 downshift into a 5-2 and zinging my 2JZ to (calculated, the tach didn't go that high) 9K rpm?

No where near as fun as cracking a 200ms shift manually. If I want to button press I will just race on a computer. I’ve not missed shifted a single time in the FRS. Not to say I haven’t in other cars. I used to own a G35 sedan with 6MT which was the worst MT I’ve owned. I guess some of the people you read about saying they’ve driven MT for years and wouldn’t mind an auto may be coming from gearboxes that suck. The twins are a blast. Most Honda’s are a blast. My dads Boxster, not so much. I’ve driven an E36 and E46 and didn’t like those gearboxes either. I drove a Ford GT once but can’t say much for the gearbox as I made one shift into 2nd and left it there for the whole run which is another issue in itself. It did like 92mph in 2nd. If the C8 got a manual it would probably have really long gears too. I sort of enjoy the busy box in our twins.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by ermax

...

Originally Posted by ermax

...

Sometimes we all miss shifts and clicks.

Like I wrote in the first sentence, it's all about trail braking. I'm a left foot late braker and when I do it right usually gain a car length or more on corner entry.

I never missed a shift on my FR-S on road or track either, but it was a challenge to consistently heel-toe rev match downshift especially at the end of a long straight into a chicane. Most DCT's I've read about would make it easy on both the car and driver. Nearly all current bespoke road racing cars are DCT's and drivers left foot brake.

I still enjoy rowing gears in a good box but times have changed and IMO for the better. Of the 150+ vehicles I've owned over decades, there were only a few A/T's and CVT's and the driving experience was forgettable. I'm ready for a DCT in a high performance car, it will be an easy choice...unless I get another Lotus Super Seven.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Atmo

After years of M/T vehicles only, I'm really warming up to DCT's (not so much A/T's for shift lag vs. DCT's) for the ease of trail braking on track.

I'm inconsistent with that on an M/T car, fine with heel-toe but adding trail braking at corner entry is usually a crapshoot unless I'm driving an A/T and deploy left foot braking.

Plus how much fun would it be cracking off <100ms up/downshifts all day and never crunching gears or accidentally making a 5-4 downshift into a 5-2 and zinging my 2JZ to (calculated, the tach didn't go that high) 9K rpm?

It kind of gets boring at the track to be honest. I've tracked my GTI with DSG trans. The rapid fire paddle shifts are cool for the first session or two (and undoubtedly it's better for laptimes), but eventually I missed working the pedals and shifter.

What it's great for though was just putting all my concentration on getting corner entry right. As you said, don't need to worry about heel-toeing while trail braking into corners. But the challenge is part of the fun right 😉

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ermax

No where near as fun as cracking a 200ms shift manually.

And in what car with what manual trans have you done that?!

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ZDan

And in what car with what manual trans have you done that?!

A short-lived one.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Sometimes we all miss shifts and clicks.

Like I wrote in the first sentence, it's all about trail braking. I'm a left foot late braker and when I do it right usually gain a car length or more on corner entry.

I never missed a shift on my FR-S on road or track either, but it was a challenge to consistently heel-toe rev match downshift especially at the end of a long straight into a chicane. Most DCT's I've read about would make it easy on both the car and driver. Nearly all current bespoke road racing cars are DCT's and drivers left foot brake.

I still enjoy rowing gears in a good box but times have changed and IMO for the better. Of the 150+ vehicles I've owned over decades, there were only a few A/T's and CVT's and the driving experience was forgettable. I'm ready for a DCT in a high performance car, it will be an easy choice...unless I get another Lotus Super Seven.

Who said you can't LFB on a manual? If you use your toe on the brake and heel on the throttle (the proper way) it's not that hard to shift between LFB and RFB when needed. But of course it's more difficult, that is what makes it fun. As for race cars being DCT, yes that is true for the pros that want to do anything possible to win. But at SCCA club racing and NASA events they are nowhere near as common.

I just would like the option for a manual even if they are technically inferior or more difficult.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ZDan

And in what car with what manual trans have you done that?!

Using 90hz datalogs you can get a good idea of how long your shifts take.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ermax

Using 90hz datalogs you can get a good idea of how long your shifts take.

If you have data showing legit 200ms shift times in a stock-transmission FT86, I'd like to see them!

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by ermax

Who said you can't LFB on a manual?

Me, due to ankle and knee surgeries to repair injuries sustained during competitive alpine skiing events in my youth. During one recovery period when I had a cast on my right leg from my toes to my ass for four months, I controlled gas, brake and clutch with my left foot while the cast was laid across the seat on the passenger side.

Living in a flat area of the U.S., I got around OK and that's how I initially adapted to left foot braking. With screws and bars keeping things together, I no longer have the range of motion required for the trail braking method you describe.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by ermax

Who said you can't LFB on a manual? If you use your toe on the brake and heel on the throttle (the proper way) it's not that hard to shift between LFB and RFB when needed.

Wait what...are you saying press brake with left foot first, then hold down with right and switch to clutch? I can't press the clutch with my left heel since it goes down much further than the brake pedal.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Wait what...are you saying press brake with left foot first, then hold down with right and switch to clutch? I can't press the clutch with my left heel since it goes down much further than the brake pedal.

LFB until you need to downshift and then point your toes together and transfer from LFB to RFB so your foot is free for the clutch. When I first started to heel toe I used my heel on the brake and toe on the throttle but then when I started learning to LFB I quickly discovered why you should use your toe on the brake. Putting your toes together is much more natural than pointing your toes to your heel.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by ermax

LFB until you need to downshift and then point your toes together and transfer from LFB to RFB so your foot is free for the clutch. When I first started to heel toe I used my heel on the brake and toe on the throttle but then when I started learning to LFB I quickly discovered why you should use your toe on the brake. Putting your toes together is much more natural than pointing your toes to your heel.

I use special wide shoes with tabs on the outside edges and a lateral rocking motion around a vertical axis with my right foot to heel-toe. It's worked well on any M/T car I've driven, but I'm so accustomed to left foot braking that I'm certain to be consistently quicker in a DCT on a road course and not just for <100ms shifts.

I understand what you're saying, but visualizing it makes it seem like an unnecessarily complex method that needs narrow shoes. I don't recall any YouTubes showing racers doing that but whatever works for you.