Potential protest impacts of avoiding valve spring recall?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by cjd

If it's a mandatory recall, the grounds exist for such a protest. If it's not mandatory, then no grounds. As noted, it's in the rulebook.


I simply don't know if the recall is mandatory 'cause I haven't paid enough attention

Are any recalls mandatory unless you live in Cali? Also, are you sure you don’t have the rule backwards? Wouldn’t it make more since to be able to protest someone if they voluntarily modified their car vs being forced to modify their car.

I really don’t see there being grounds for a protest either way. The springs haven’t been upgraded they are simply swapping defective springs with new springs. Same part numbers as the original springs.

[cjd]

Remember, this isn't about valve springs except for this platform. It's about recalls, which could cover nearly anything. If it's mandatory, only the updated part is legal.



The rules don't attempt to differentiate based on whether it's a performance improvement or not, or anything else.


If it's an optional recall, ANY of the parts are legal. No grounds for protest at all.

[strat61caster]

How many weenie protests have happened due to the Takata airbag recall?

[ORrooster]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

How many weenie protests have happened due to the Takata airbag recall?

You can not be serious, eh? That isn't really happening.

[steverife]

You could always email Doug Gill.

Personally, I don't have a '13, but I'd have less than zero concerns about someone wanting to post a bond to tear down my engine because of valve springs prone to failure.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ermax

Are any recalls mandatory unless you live in Cali? Also, are you sure you don’t have the rule backwards? Wouldn’t it make more since to be able to protest someone if they voluntarily modified their car vs being forced to modify their car..

I don't think any recall is "mandatory". They can't hunt you down and make you get the work done. My understanding is California requires emissions recalls to be performed, but not all recalls. The valve spring is considered an emissions recall, hence the issue.

[MPot]

OK, time for "fun with rulebooks" :-)
It was my understanding that the SSC rules were "stand alone", (Section 20), and the quote from the rulebook was from section 13, which is not a mandatory section. Hence, the rule from section 13 does not apply.
Yeah, I know, "Send a note to Doug." :-)
Mike P

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I don't think any recall is "mandatory". They can't hunt you down and make you get the work done. My understanding is California requires emissions recalls to be performed, but not all recalls. The valve spring is considered an emissions recall, hence the issue.

You won't be able to renew your registration in California without first having the recall performed.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by MPot

OK, time for "fun with rulebooks" :-)
It was my understanding that the SSC rules were "stand alone", (Section 20), and the quote from the rulebook was from section 13, which is not a mandatory section. Hence, the rule from section 13 does not apply.
Yeah, I know, "Send a note to Doug." :-)
Mike P

The quote above was from appendix F, it only refers back to section 13, which appears to be the rule-set for street class cars, including the rules for which modifications are permitted. How would that be optional?

[steverife]

Looking at the rulebook and don't see anything.

Are we talking about the damaged parts line? So if your valve spring shatters and you blow up, you're blown up car isn't legal.

Or the superseded line? I'd read that to mean original or superseded part. Otherwise, we'd have to constantly check parts catalogs before every event and replace fasteners/etc as the manufacturer runs out of stock.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

You won't be able to renew your registration in California without first having the recall performed.

I renewed my registration last week no issue.

It won't come up until the car needs to go in for smog certification and it will fail the smog check because of a note in the system. For 2013 cars the earliest that will happen is April of 2020. And even then, lots of empty threats and little follow through because shits expensive yo.

But not at all relevant to this thread which is pretty ridiculous.

Can it happen? Yes.
Will it happen? Probably not.
Will the guy who tries this become a laughingstock? Probably.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

You won't be able to renew your registration in California without first having the recall performed.

Yes, the valve recall, because it is classified as emissions somehow, but if it is a general safety recall, does it have to be done?

For example, there is a recall for an inappropriate page in the manual, would that keep you from registering? (Yes, I realize this is for Southeast Toyota only so not applicable to CA, unless you take the car there, but as an example)

[Locust]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

Also - There is no way they would be pulling an engine at a SOLO event for protest.

Oh it happens.

Local events will tell you to pound sand if you try it but for a national event if someone is willing to put up the money to have your engine torn down then you can either forfeit or concede to it happening. If found to be illegal you're on the hook for your car. If not, the person who protested you is on the hook for putting it back together and paying for the work.

From the 2018 rules for you:

The protestor may request that the car be
disassembled, inspected, or any other test made, provided he or she posts a
cash bond with the PC sufficient to cover the expense of access to documen- tation, disassembly, inspection and reassembly. A protest may be reduced in
scope but not added to at the time the bond is set. Once a bond is posted, the
stipulated inspections shall be completed unless the protest is wholly or par- tially withdrawn by the protestor. The PC shall apportion the costs incurred,
including reassembly, up to the point of withdrawal, provided no illegality
has been discovered.

D. Where the circumstances warrant, the PC may require the protested party
to post bond or sign a repair order with a service establishment to cover
the costs of access to documentation, disassembly and inspection, in the
event judgment goes against him or her. The bond shall be established in
the same manner as a protestor’s bond.

8.3.6 Disposition of Bond and Protest Fee
If the car conforms to the rules, the protestor shall forfeit the bond and protest fee. After compliance with 8.3.6 the bond will be paid to the protested
party. The protest fee will be retained by SCCA®. If the car does not conform
to the rules, the entire protestor’s bond and protest fee shall be returned and
the protested party shall stand all expenses.

And before anyone gets the idea in their head that a particularly wealthy person could just throw engine protests at people all day....

8.8 REASONABLENESS
It is expected that protests shall be reasonable, logical, and based on sound
evidence, thus well-founded. A well-founded protest shall further be defined
as one upon which reasonable men or women may differ. A protest may be
well-founded even if not upheld.
8.8.1 Forfeiture of Protest Fee
If a protest is judged to be not well-founded, the protest fee shall be forfeited.
8.8.2 Vexatious Or Bad Faith Protests
A protestor who has acted in bad faith or in a vexatious manner may be penalized by the PC.
8.8.3 Return of Fee
The fee for a protest that is not upheld but is determined by the PC to be well
founded may be returned to the protesting party upon the decision of the PC.

By the way I can't provide details on it but this has happened or gone as far as to be in committee discussion at a recent nationals. But it wasn't for something as silly as a manufacturer recall and there was legitimate evidence that something might have been out of spec.

[DocWalt]

This is silly. Who gives a shit? Nobody with a brain would protest you over this and a PC would likely toss your dumbass protest.