follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Forced Induction

Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-26-2014, 01:06 PM   #43
xwd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2013 DGM Subaru BRZ (Subie #9)
Location: ATL, US
Posts: 2,667
Thanks: 123
Thanked 860 Times in 552 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There are two sides of the story and then the truth as they say.

I don't really care if GReddy backed out of a deal or Zage was outright counterfeiting the kit, but poorly grinding the logo of a competitor off the pipes and including other parts with their name on it is piss poor business practice. If I was SBD I wouldn't accept that on a product I was selling.
xwd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to xwd For This Useful Post:
woode (10-26-2014)
Old 10-26-2014, 03:07 PM   #44
solus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: 2014 Scion FRS (Ultramarine)
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 203
Thanks: 36
Thanked 64 Times in 42 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
let the market correct the issues... just saying
solus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 03:13 PM   #45
gramicci101
Off Topic
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2014 Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: Vegas, baby!
Posts: 4,610
Thanks: 2,369
Thanked 4,243 Times in 2,170 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by solus View Post
let the market correct the issues... just saying
That doesn't work. The market votes with their wallet, so they'll always go for the cheapest option. This encourages companies that actually do the R&D to just not participate anymore. What's the point of devoting six months to a year or more and tying up multiple people's time with designing, fabricating, testing, more designing, more fabricating, more testing, etc... if you won't be able to recoup those expenses?


All it takes is one shitty company to buy one kit legitimately, copy it, and start selling copies of your kit for a thousand or two less, and there goes any profit you might have made. There are several countries in Asia that excel at making cheap knockoffs of nearly everything, and there's no way to force them to stop. The market will gravitate towards those kits unless there's something horrendously wrong with them, just because they're cheaper.
gramicci101 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to gramicci101 For This Useful Post:
Jyn (11-09-2014), mad_sb (01-08-2015), serial gixxer (01-07-2015), woode (10-26-2014)
Old 10-26-2014, 03:34 PM   #46
woode
Boosted Member
 
woode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 699
Thanks: 455
Thanked 464 Times in 246 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Send a message via MSN to woode
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foobar View Post
I didn't say it cost them nothing, I said companies that innovate have financial incentives to do so beyond simply charging more to the customer.

Charge more because you truly have a product, service, or process that sets you apart from competitors. If what you make can be provided by some other company for less, and their product is inferior, let the consumer beware. If the product is of comparable quality and the only differentiator is "we did the R&D and deserve to be paid more but we don't have a legal leg to stand on to enforce it" then you're doing something wrong.

Not targeting this at you, just speaking rhetorically since I see this argument a lot for some of the brands on here (many of which I've personally spent money on, don't get me wrong.)

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I like your avatar.
__________________
2013 Subaru BRZ LTD 6MT DGM
2014 Subaru XV Crosstrek Hybrid TRG PG
2011 Honda CBR1000RR
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX PRM SSM
woode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 03:52 PM   #47
raven1231
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: 2013 Firestorm FR-S, 2016 DGM WRX
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 4,580
Thanks: 8,264
Thanked 3,118 Times in 1,667 Posts
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramicci101 View Post
That doesn't work. The market votes with their wallet, so they'll always go for the cheapest option. This encourages companies that actually do the R&D to just not participate anymore. What's the point of devoting six months to a year or more and tying up multiple people's time with designing, fabricating, testing, more designing, more fabricating, more testing, etc... if you won't be able to recoup those expenses?


All it takes is one shitty company to buy one kit legitimately, copy it, and start selling copies of your kit for a thousand or two less, and there goes any profit you might have made. There are several countries in Asia that excel at making cheap knockoffs of nearly everything, and there's no way to force them to stop. The market will gravitate towards those kits unless there's something horrendously wrong with them, just because they're cheaper.
It does work in the sense that if that actually happened and everyone just started buying nothing but copies (I doubt this would ever occur for the same reason people don't all buy Rotas, or ebay exhausts), then there would be nothing to copy. Eventually it would get to the point where someone had to RD a new kit and people would buy the authentic kit. Now that might get copied down the road as well and eventually the cycle would restart itself perhaps but in reality I don't think this scenario would ever occur as some people only by "authentic" name brand products.
raven1231 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to raven1231 For This Useful Post:
solus (10-26-2014)
Old 10-26-2014, 03:58 PM   #48
Foobar
SLO NO MO
 
Foobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: '19 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 2,961
Thanks: 224
Thanked 1,062 Times in 738 Posts
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramicci101 View Post
That doesn't work. The market votes with their wallet, so they'll always go for the cheapest option.
If that's how market worked, we would not have brands like Apple, BMW, Bang and Olufsen, Louis Vuitton, and other premium brands that charge a lot more than other brands.


Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Foobar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Foobar For This Useful Post:
raven1231 (10-26-2014)
Old 10-26-2014, 03:59 PM   #49
Foobar
SLO NO MO
 
Foobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: '19 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 2,961
Thanks: 224
Thanked 1,062 Times in 738 Posts
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by woode View Post
I like your avatar.
Lol, just noticed that. Right on!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Foobar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 04:19 PM   #50
gramicci101
Off Topic
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2014 Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: Vegas, baby!
Posts: 4,610
Thanks: 2,369
Thanked 4,243 Times in 2,170 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foobar View Post
If that's how market worked, we would not have brands like Apple, BMW, Bang and Olufsen, Louis Vuitton, and other premium brands that charge a lot more than other brands.


Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Sure we would. They all produce better products than their knockoffs. If you get an Appel Ipud from a street vendor in Afghanistan (it was a long deployment, don't ask), it might look like an iPad, but it won't work like one and it'll only last a month. For audio, just because it looks like a B&W or a Wilson or a Boenicke doesn't mean shit; the technology just isn't in the counterfeit and it will sound like crap. Even LV, Hermes, Christian Louboutin, etc... A Preda shoe might look just like its Prada counterpart, but it won't fit as well, won't be as comfortable, and won't last nearly as long as the original. Some people know that quality costs more, and they're ok with that. Others just want to look classy without the price tag, and they get an inferior product.
gramicci101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 04:39 PM   #51
solus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: 2014 Scion FRS (Ultramarine)
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 203
Thanks: 36
Thanked 64 Times in 42 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramicci101 View Post
That doesn't work. The market votes with their wallet, so they'll always go for the cheapest option. This encourages companies that actually do the R&D to just not participate anymore. What's the point of devoting six months to a year or more and tying up multiple people's time with designing, fabricating, testing, more designing, more fabricating, more testing, etc... if you won't be able to recoup those expenses?


All it takes is one shitty company to buy one kit legitimately, copy it, and start selling copies of your kit for a thousand or two less, and there goes any profit you might have made. There are several countries in Asia that excel at making cheap knockoffs of nearly everything, and there's no way to force them to stop. The market will gravitate towards those kits unless there's something horrendously wrong with them, just because they're cheaper.
The name brands will just have to innovate faster rather then milk a design for too long. This is part of the market and should prevent companies from becoming too comfortable. Greddy, SDB, and Zage seem to having something else going on (contract issues) but the market will fix it. Yes, people will buy the cheapest but they also buy the best quality... all things being equal though, yes price wins. If the SDB/Zage is the same as the Greddy then maybe Greddy should get better lawyers or innovate faster.
solus is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to solus For This Useful Post:
bfrank1972 (10-27-2014), raven1231 (10-26-2014)
Old 10-27-2014, 10:45 AM   #52
King Tut
NASA SpecE30 Racer
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2006 Honda S2000
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 7,279
Thanks: 607
Thanked 5,759 Times in 3,055 Posts
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 10 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to King Tut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foobar View Post
Lol, just noticed that. Right on!
I already would have never bought an SBD turbo kit, so the only thing I took out of this thread is that either @Foobar or @woode needs to change their avatar. Too confusing.
__________________
King Tut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to King Tut For This Useful Post:
Cessblood (10-27-2014), Foobar (10-27-2014), mad_sb (01-08-2015), woode (10-27-2014)
Old 10-27-2014, 11:38 AM   #53
SkAsphalt
Ridge Racerrrrrrrrr
 
SkAsphalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S, 2004 Toyota Coroll
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 3,516
Thanks: 5,786
Thanked 1,363 Times in 954 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by solus View Post
let the market correct the issues... just saying
You're funny
__________________
SkAsphalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 08:20 PM   #54
FR-Sizzle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: brz
Location: San Dieg
Posts: 245
Thanks: 30
Thanked 84 Times in 52 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike&Ike View Post
Seriously had lots of good info on the kit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TruenoFRS View Post
@Mike&Ike Because members were being overly opinionated about the Greddy kit and SBD kit being exactly the same. Basically the thread got way off topic because members think that their opinions actully matter when they don't. All it did was ruin a thread that had a lot of good information for member who wanted to purchase the kit.
Why would you want to support a company that is making shit worse for our scene? Do you want to see good parts coming out for our car? Then support REAL companies. Not companies who copy another kit just so they dont need to do R&D. Greddy is a big company and they can recover from shit like this. But when companies start copying from the smaller companies not as big they ussually get put out of business.

Its a complete rip off of the Greddy kit. Big reason why many companies dont innovate or release new parts as often is because of stupid companies like them who copy a companies R&D for a turbo kit.

Supporting companies like this is what hurts our scene and makes companies like Greddy/HKS not want to do business in the states. Why do you think HKS-USA shut down and they moved all their operations back to Japan? All their shit they put out gets copied by companies like SBD and @vividracing

Vivid racing use to sell a greddy intake or part for another platform. Then when Vivid racing copied that part they removed the Greddy part and replaced it with theirs and always recommending it over other parts to customers and those customers ended up fucking up their car bad due to bad craftsmanship/QC. It was leaking or something I forget but it wasnt a good part. Honestly why would you go cheap on a turbo kit?

Spend the extra money and get Greddys turbo kit or get another kit from another vendor who did their own R&D at the same price range like AVO. You get what you pay for and I wouldnt be surprised if this kit cut corners to reduce costs. Youll thank your self later when you see owners of this kit reporting blown engines due to probably using made in china/taiwan parts/turbos. Not that they are bad but you can bet Greddy if they did source their parts from there that they will make sure they have quality work done by them since they need to protect their brand.
FR-Sizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FR-Sizzle For This Useful Post:
woode (10-28-2014)
Old 10-28-2014, 08:25 PM   #55
FR-Sizzle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: brz
Location: San Dieg
Posts: 245
Thanks: 30
Thanked 84 Times in 52 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike&Ike View Post
You guys would be surprised about the Japanese part makers that outsource to Taiwan. Greddy has been outsourcing the intercoolers in Taiwan for a while same as their coilovers. This isn't something new to the market. A lot of Japanese manufacturers do this to save money because the labor rate is cheaper.
But they also make sure that the QC is good. Your less likely to get a part that is dysfunctional or that has imperfections from them than a company like SBD for example.

Not all parts from taiwan/china are bad. Its just that not all companies make sure that what they receive from there is good quality work being done. Cracks, welds, fitment etc.
FR-Sizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 08:45 PM   #56
raven1231
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: 2013 Firestorm FR-S, 2016 DGM WRX
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 4,580
Thanks: 8,264
Thanked 3,118 Times in 1,667 Posts
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Love all the speculation on all ends
raven1231 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Was the thread titled "Test" really deleted? husker741 Site Announcements / Questions / Issues 39 04-09-2014 02:50 PM
Frs300 thread deleted again? Mathewgzlz Forced Induction 111 01-20-2014 01:28 AM
Thread Deleted. Aventador87 AUSTRALIA 0 06-21-2012 08:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.