Any official 0-60 times between auto and manual?

[FastLap]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Oh you live in Florida? Traffic there?
Nah!

On a car like this it doesn't really matter if you get AT or MT performance wise, hell its starting to turn into that for all cars! Some of us bought the AT cause we thought it was an interesting automatic, some of us like paddle shifters, some of us drive in traffic daily and don't want to have our gearbox to suffer and then some of us just don't know how to drive MT. To dismiss automatic gearboxes by themselves is just plain foolish.

Alright, i'm done on this topic forever.

Well, I actually haven't lived in Florida very long... I honestly don't get what the issue is with MT and traffic.

Like I said, to each their own. All I know is I've tried AT's and can't get used to it. I had a VW R32 with the DSG AT which is arguably one of the best ATs out there, and I sold it within 3 months. I feel like if you don't HAVE to use the paddle shifters, then there's really no point in ever using them. It sounds strange, but I'd rather them put the paddle shifters in but remove any automatic control so it still works like a manual transmission just with paddles instead of a clutch pedal and shift lever.

[regal]

I've never had an Auto last longer than 150k miles. At that point when the vehicle needs a new transmission it is basically totaled because a new slushbox will cost more than the car is worth and a rebuild is a hope and a prayer.

I have zero confidence that this 6 speed auto will last more than 100k. New model, new tranny with extra gears, for rwd with a torsen axle. Just don't have confidence in it. In ten years this new tranny will be impossible to find, finding someone who one could trust to rebuild a low production 6 speed auto will be a huge challenge.

The FRS manual is the best I have driven, better than the classic BMW/borg warner manuals. Its the sh*t.

My humble opinion is that the only time an auto is a good choice for a performance car is for a turbo drag setup. Like a Buick Grand National, those were bullet proof autos that actually helped performance.

The reason this car has an Auto option because the 6 gears allows institutionalized atrificial higher than real life EPA ratings. Also a few folks in their 20's don't know how to drive a manual. But I think that people that age are catching on to learn how to work a clutch.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by TOMCENTRAL

I went into the dealer wanting a MT & drove the AT first.I said I wanted a MT & would wait till one was available.Well,the deal fell thru on the MT & I drove it.It felt different,not as stout & I just liked the feel of the AT so I bought the AT.The AT in this particular vehicle caused the engine to sound, more throaty & seemed to be as fast when I used the sport mode w/the traction control off.Now I know the stick is supposed to be faster.But the comparison I watched on YouTube left the car in DRIVE sport on BUT with the traction control ON.When I drive mine,I hold the traction control down for the 3-5 seconds,turn on the sport & paddle shift the auto.It shifts fast,faster thanI can shift the stick.The car really shifts fast at red/lite/line.My previous car was a 6-speed Genesis Turbo with Cold air intake MagnaFlow 3 inch cat back & a Poweraxel turbo boost controller that increases the boost from 7 to 20 lbs.The car was fast & I would never have wanted it in a AT or any car till I drove the Scion.The sport mode w/Traction control off ( torque converter off) allows down shifting that accually holds the revs up like a stick.The AT really sold the car for me.
Of course I did try to be reasonable once,
I didn't like it.
Regards,Tom

I love this review!! So basically it felt like a manual transmission without the POS clutches I hate so much huh? If so I am also sold on the AT hands down. The thing I can't understand about manual trannys is why they can't make the clutch easy to use? Brakes is easy to use. Gas pedal is easy to use. The steering wheel is easy to use. The gearbox is easy to use. But why the FUCK does a clutch need an "engagement point" for? How is that driver friendly I ask? If the BRZ had a clutch where you just press it and shift the car without worrying about an engagement point I would rather a manual hands down.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by regal

I've never had an Auto last longer than 150k miles. At that point when the vehicle needs a new transmission it is basically totaled because a new slushbox will cost more than the car is worth and a rebuild is a hope and a prayer.

I have zero confidence that this 6 speed auto will last more than 100k. New model, new tranny with extra gears, for rwd with a torsen axle. Just don't have confidence in it. In ten years this new tranny will be impossible to find, finding someone who one could trust to rebuild a low production 6 speed auto will be a huge challenge.

The FRS manual is the best I have driven, better than the classic BMW/borg warner manuals. Its the sh*t.

My humble opinion is that the only time an auto is a good choice for aperformance car is for a turbo drag setup. Like a Buick Grand National, those were bullet proof autos that actually helped performance.

The reason this car has an Auto option because the 6 gears allows institutionalized atrificial higher than real life EPA ratings. Also a few folks in their 20's don't know how to drive a manual. But I think that people that age are catching on to learn how to work a clutch.

IS250 isn't as new as a BRZ. And in the IS250 the tranny handles more torque output(184lb ft). I had a 97 RL with 190k miles and my auto was smooth as butter. My RSX automatic has 115k miles on it now and is still smooth even though I abuse it in manual shift mode.

[BlueLeader]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Actually I couldn't care less what people buy. I can explain why I like MT cars just like you can explain why you like AT cars

Do I have a very high dislike of ATs and DCTs? Absolutely. I absolutely ENJOY driving a MT car. It's not a chore, it's enjoyable. You don't like those things, and that's fine.

I agree. I made a mistake going from a Evolution 9 to a CVT AT Subie Forester XT. I absolutely HATE AT daily driving. Which is why I'm going with a manual FR-S. =) won't have a kick like the Evo but damn sure would love to drift around a track with it.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by regal

I've never had an Auto last longer than 150k miles. At that point when the vehicle needs a new transmission it is basically totaled because a new slushbox will cost more than the car is worth and a rebuild is a hope and a prayer.

I have zero confidence that this 6 speed auto will last more than 100k. New model, new tranny with extra gears, for rwd with a torsen axle. Just don't have confidence in it. In ten years this new tranny will be impossible to find, finding someone who one could trust to rebuild a low production 6 speed auto will be a huge challenge.

The FRS manual is the best I have driven, better than the classic BMW/borg warner manuals. Its the sh*t.

My humble opinion is that the only time an auto is a good choice for aperformance car is for a turbo drag setup. Like a Buick Grand National, those were bullet proof autos that actually helped performance.

The reason this car has an Auto option because the 6 gears allows institutionalized atrificial higher than real life EPA ratings. Also a few folks in their 20's don't know how to drive a manual. But I think that people that age are catching on to learn how to work a clutch.

excellent point! this "slush box" IS going to be "hammered" on!..bet the ranch on this,and when it breaks,WILL be a "bear" to fix,count on this! who knows,it may take the beating and last 5 years,but when it "dumps" you will pay big time! direct drive trannies are virtually trouble free over a very long time! if you know how to drive a stick properly,the "only" wear item that could wear out over time is the "throw-out" bearing,and even then,will last at least 200,000 miles or better,if it was built right from the factory. ie: (quality part!)

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I love this review!! So basically it felt like a manual transmission without the POS clutches I hate so much huh? If so I am also sold on the AT hands down. The thing I can't understand about manual trannys is why they can't make the clutch easy to use? Brakes is easy to use. Gas pedal is easy to use. The steering wheel is easy to use. The gearbox is easy to use. But why the FUCK does a clutch need an "engagement point" for? How is that driver friendly I ask? If the BRZ had a clutch where you just press it and shift the car without worrying about an engagement point I would rather a manual hands down.

it is easy to use! the clutch in this car is very light and requires very little effort to actuate! i think it's great and is just right!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

excellent point! this "slush box" IS going to be "hammered" on!..bet the ranch on this,and when it breaks,WILL be a "bear" to fix,count on this! who knows,it may take the beating and last 5 years,but when it "dumps" you will pay big time! direct drive trannies are virtually trouble free over a very long time! if you know how to drive a stick properly,the "only" wear item that could wear out over time is the "throw-out" bearing,and even then,will last at least 200,000 miles or better,if it was built right from the factory. ie: (quality part!)



it is easy to use! the clutch in this car is very light and requires very little effort to actuate! i think it's great and is just right!

I have heard through reviews that the engagement point is vague feeling. I just wish clutches didn't have an engagement point at all. Another thing that you forgot to mention is that clutches go bad. I'm pretty sure there are folks who replace at least 5 clutches in 200,000 miles and quality clutches and installation is not cheap. There's a thread with a guy who supposedly destroyed his in 700 miles. That is way too much money to be spending so fast.

[@Art_Mighty]

So forget about official times for a minute. What's the fastest recorded 0-60 times in an automatic by anyone and how were they achieved?

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I have heard through reviews that the engagement point is vague feeling. I just wish clutches didn't have an engagement point at all. Another thing that you forgot to mention is that clutches go bad. I'm pretty sure there are folks who replace at least 5 clutches in 200,000 miles and quality clutches and installation is not cheap. There's a thread with a guy who supposedly destroyed his in 700 miles. That is way too much money to be spending so fast.

i would be a fool to state this has NOT happened,however from MY experience,
if you don't ''ride" the clutch,and keep it partially engaged by resting your foot on it,then theoretically it should last a very long time,and SHOULD be trouble free,IF it is a quality built unit. again,the "throw-out" bearing has proven to be the weak link in a manual transmission,as it is a part subject to a lot of stress over time! the idea is to shift and literally "get your foot OFF the clutch!" generally means no issues!

[regal]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

I would be a fool to state this has NOT happened,however from MY experience,
if you don't ''ride" the clutch,and keep it partially engaged by resting your foot on it,then theoretically it should last a very long time,and SHOULD be trouble free,IF it is a quality built unit. again,the "throw-out" bearing has proven to be the weak link in a manual transmission,as it is a part subject to a lot of stress over time!

Yes when you use the clutch properly it will last nearly forever.

The slave cylinder will probably go first if driven right, I need to check but it should be accesible for replacement without dropping the tranny.

As far as the throw-out bearing, yes it will go. But that should last well over 100k.

The important thing about this is as long as the synchros last a clutch, throw-out bearing, slave cylinder can be replaced by any joe smoe mechanic (especially on this RWD car), its really easy. So in a decade, or if you screw up the clutch (everyone makes mistakes) it won't break the bank. It is much easier (less labor) to replace a clutch, throw-out bearing, surface the flywheel on this FRS than any Honda or other FWD or MR car.

Working on an auto tranny is something very few people can do right, with a 6 speed auto practically no one.

So when the auto tranny starts to lose 6th gear, sell

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by regal

Working on an auto tranny is something very few people can do right, with a 6 speed auto practically no one.

It doesn't look that bad!

[dori.]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I have heard through reviews that the engagement point is vague feeling. I just wish clutches didn't have an engagement point at all. Another thing that you forgot to mention is that clutches go bad. I'm pretty sure there are folks who replace at least 5 clutches in 200,000 miles and quality clutches and installation is not cheap. There's a thread with a guy who supposedly destroyed his in 700 miles. That is way too much money to be spending so fast.

You know, at first I thought you were joking...

The clutch has an engagement point, just as the gas and brake do. None of the 3 pedals are digital inputs. They all have a range of motion in which they work in. You telling me that you (basically) wish for the clutch to operate like a light switch means that you don't understand how a manual transmission works and have not spent enough time using one.
If it WERE like that, the car would be much harder to control. Could you imagine having to be fully in gear every time you back the car up?

Now in this car, it is true that the full engagement point in this car is fairly high in the pedal's travel. If you're used to cars with a more linear feel then yeah it takes getting used to.

Clutches don't 'go bad', they are a wear item like anything else on the car. Anyone that replaces his/her clutch after 700 miles or 5 times in 200k either just had the bad luck of having defective clutches or just plainly doesn't know how to drive. Those are rare occurrences. How are you going to let a single incident like that deter you from driving manual? How about the hundreds of forum members that drive the 6MT and have no problem?
Shit, I even know an FR-S owner whose car is his first manual and he's had no problems.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by dori.

You know, at first I thought you were joking...

The clutch has an engagement point, just as the gas and brake do. None of the 3 pedals are digital inputs. They all have a range of motion in which they work in. You telling me that you (basically) wish for the clutch to operate like a light switch means that you don't understand how a manual transmission works and have not spent enough time using one.
If it WERE like that, the car would be much harder to control. Could you imagine having to be fully in gear every time you back the car up?

Now in this car, it is true that the full engagement point in this car is fairly high in the pedal's travel. If you're used to cars with a more linear feel then yeah it takes getting used to.

Clutches don't 'go bad', they are a wear item like anything else on the car. Anyone that replaces his/her clutch after 700 miles or 5 times in 200k either just had the bad luck of having defective clutches or just plainly doesn't know how to drive. Those are rare occurrences. How are you going to let a single incident like that deter you from driving manual? How about the hundreds of forum members that drive the 6MT and have no problem?
Shit, I even know an FR-S owner whose car is his first manual and he's had no problems.

There is a huge difference between them. As soon as I step on my gas pedal in my car it goes and goes depending on how fast I want it to go. The same thing applies to brakes. A clutch does not follow the same theory and you know it. Best way to describe a clutches engagement point is by using a pie fraction circle. 5-10% of the pie is the stupid ass engagement area and the other 90% is the bullshit area. Why couldn't it have been at least 50%? What's so hard in automakers doing that?

When I was trying to drive a S2000 I tried every foot trick I could find on that light ass clutch and for the love of God I swear I couldn't find the engagement point for 5 minutes. It as if its % is about 1% somewhere in the travel. Then I drove a 350Z manual and it was easier. It felt like it was around 20% vs the S2000. Its the only manual transmission car I would drive.

[russv]

If you are so concerned about 0-60 times you should be looking at a different car. The FRS/BRZ is about the handling.