FA20 - A, Thats F20 Quick Math

[Bach415]

Originally Posted by Pure Automotive

Our normal price on the 2JZ and LSX MoTeC kit is $5895. We are trying something new to attempt to shave the price down significantly without losing any of the benefits, it will take a little extra time for us to develop but it will be worth the wait for the consumer hopefully

Originally Posted by Soloside

so 1/2 of the price of a 2jz swap....




how much are we talking about here. MY CHECK BOOK IS READY

Since their kit for 2JZ/LSX is ~$6k. Probably $3k for this?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Soloside

so 1/2 of the price of a 2jz swap....




how much are we talking about here. MY CHECK BOOK IS READY

Originally Posted by Bach415

Since their kit for 2JZ/LSX is ~$6k. Probably $3k for this?

I doubt the kit will be much different. The swap will still require motor mounts, custom brackets, custom wiring, custom Motec system. The bigger savings is the cost of the motor and tranny, right?

[86Tony]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I doubt the kit will be much different. The swap will still require motor mounts, custom brackets, custom wiring, custom Motec system. The bigger savings is the cost of the motor and tranny, right?

They said they are doing something similar to thier motec package, prolly using a diffrent ecu so that will help with cost maybe k pro or aem hopefully i find out soon, i just picked up a k24 now sourcing a ap2 transmission then just be waiting for kit to release.

[Token11b]

Originally Posted by MRS-Colin

Bone stock 185 with no rusts

I guess since you are in Canada its easier to get an RC

How much are you tryin to get for the 185? Been lookin for one for some years now.

[mulekr1]

To everyone saying you’re saving money on the engine a s2000 engine is 4500 reg price and 3800 on a deal..

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by mulekr1

To everyone saying you’re saving money on the engine a s2000 engine is 4500 reg price and 3800 on a deal..

And a 2jz with v160?

[86Tony]

Originally Posted by mulekr1

To everyone saying you’re saving money on the engine a s2000 engine is 4500 reg price and 3800 on a deal..

In the long run you will save more money by goin with a honda powerplant, im at the point where i need a new shortblock for my fa20 that it self cost more then the F20/22 you can always go the K route and get a k24 for 1000$ even less and then the weakest link is the trans. Since im boosted and it only see track the box is going to go real soon.
CD009 upgrade by mazwork is 5k + now all said and done just to make 400whp reliablely is stupid money. With the k series and s2000 trans it will take 400 all day no issue. Hell i had a buddy ran 483whp in his boosted integra for 3 years, it saw drag strip and everything it was on stock internals and she still was mint before he sold it

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by mulekr1

To everyone saying you’re saving money on the engine a s2000 engine is 4500 reg price and 3800 on a deal..

Just in case anyone wonders, the price of a USDM 2jz with v160 is around $15k; an auto will be cheaper, but a USDM engine will fetch a premium. A JDM 2jz with v160 is around $10k. Prices vary for a JDM motor depending on VVTI or not. I think someone could save some money going with the MKIII tranny, I believe it is the r154, but it is obviously not as good. Motors with the Aristo auto transmission will be cheaper. I don't know if the Aristo auto is the same as the Supra TT auto, or the same as the Supra NA auto.

Originally Posted by 86Tony

In the long run you will save more money by goin with a honda powerplant, im at the point where i need a new shortblock for my fa20 that it self cost more then the F20/22 you can always go the K route and get a k24 for 1000$ even less and then the weakest link is the trans. Since im boosted and it only see track the box is going to go real soon.
CD009 upgrade by mazwork is 5k + now all said and done just to make 400whp reliablely is stupid money. With the k series and s2000 trans it will take 400 all day no issue. Hell i had a buddy ran 483whp in his boosted integra for 3 years, it saw drag strip and everything it was on stock internals and she still was mint before he sold it

I agree. I'm pretty sure the motor/tranny is cheaper, and the aftermarket is cheaper. 2jz stuff is a premium. Probably more than LS stuff because of popularity and how prevalent LS motors are in the states.

[PuslarBrrrz]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Just in case anyone wonders, the price of a USDM 2jz with v160 is around $15k; an auto will be cheaper, but a USDM engine will fetch a premium. A JDM 2jz with v160 is around $10k. Prices vary for a JDM motor depending on VVTI or not. I think someone could save some money going with the MKIII tranny, I believe it is the r154, but it is obviously not as good. Motors with the Aristo auto transmission will be cheaper. I don't know if the Aristo auto is the same as the Supra TT auto, or the same as the Supra NA auto.



I agree. I'm pretty sure the motor/tranny is cheaper, and the aftermarket is cheaper. 2jz stuff is a premium. Probably more than LS stuff because of popularity and how prevalent LS motors are in the states.

Well, its very rare to use a V160 because of its cost.. Swaps typically use a CD009 which can be had for $700used-1800new. Figure another $1500-3000 for the adapter, flywheel, clutch, ect. depending on how baller you want to get. But the S2000 combo is still less expensive by a few grand. The aftermarkets prices aren't THAT different once you do any FI stuff to either.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by ZDan

If you're using j/y parts maybe engine/trans costs aren't all that significant. But I recently put brand new forged stroker LS3 and T56 Magnum transmission in the FD and I noticed the outflow of $$$$$! That was after the old j/y LS2 swap developed cracks in #7 piston ringlands and the j/y F-bod T56 in addition to being balky in general started popping out of 3rd at the track at the most inopportune times

Meanwhile the engine and trans in my '01 S2000 are fine at 253k miles after 10 years of daily-driving and many track days.

I would not hesitate to swap a used j/y F20C/M6 into a car for street/track fun.
I don't think I'd do it with an LS-swap again though, for my usage.



In reality, surprisingly to me even the '17 BRZ with 4.3 diff doesn't feel any more "punchy" for the situation you describe than my '01 S2000, maybe less so. Partly due to the AP1 trans being shorter-geared (numerically higher) but also due to the fact that you're already running into the FA20 torque dip by 3500rpm, whereas in the S2000 the torque is pretty flat up to 6000.

IMO F20C (or F22C) into FT86 should be a pretty brilliant swap. If it came like that in 2013 I would have bought one then instead of waiting til just a few weeks ago!

Regardless of my reservations about the S2000 L4 as a swap engine candidate, I would have loved to have been able to open the hood on a factory FRS and see a real engine in there rather than the silly flat4.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by PuslarBrrrz

Well, its very rare to use a V160 because of its cost.. Swaps typically use a CD009 which can be had for $700used-1800new. Figure another $1500-3000 for the adapter, flywheel, clutch, ect. depending on how baller you want to get. But the S2000 combo is still less expensive by a few grand. The aftermarkets prices aren't THAT different once you do any FI stuff to either.

So I should have clarified, that the cost for 2JZ parts or labor could be a premium, but I was mostly referring to the obvious, that having two extra cylinders means more cost for parts and labor when building the motor, as an example, or when designing a turbo manifold. The other obvious is that when you start with a bigger motor then upgrades are more expensive—not comparatively hp for hp (in that case the costs are probably cheaper), but a single turbo on a 2JZ typically are larger than singles placed on a 2.0.

I think what is another obvious that no one has mentioned, unless I missed it, is that their kit was also designed around their custom intake manifold, GM TB and single turbo kit. I haven’t checked if a stock 2jz is an option, so forgive me if I am mistaken, but I believe the GM TB is a must, and if it doesn’t bolt to the OEM intake manifold or if there isn’t an adapter or modification that can be made to make it fit, then their intake manifold is also required. It looks like the stock twin turbos fit, but I’m not sure if things are designed around their single turbo kit too.

My thoughts are that they will try to keep things OEM for a true budget build.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Regardless of my reservations about the S2000 L4 as a swap engine candidate, I would have loved to have been able to open the hood on a factory FRS and see a real engine in there rather than the silly flat4.

Silly flat four? For $25k, what were you expecting? Something greater than 100hp/l from a naturally aspirated motor? It is a low center of gravity, front/mid engine layout, you know, a similar formula as the Porsche Caymen, a pretty amazing handling car like the 86.

[MRS-Colin]

Originally Posted by Token11b

How much are you tryin to get for the 185? Been lookin for one for some years now.

8,000

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Silly flat four? For $25k, what were you expecting? Something greater than 100hp/l from a naturally aspirated motor? It is a low center of gravity, front/mid engine layout, you know, a similar formula as the Porsche Caymen, a pretty amazing handling car like the 86.

Actually, the power output is not something that I object to with the Subaru flat four. 200 hp per liter is nothing special in today's world, but it will do just fine for the driving that I do.

The reason that I call it a silly design is that two cylinder heads and 4 cams, for a 4 banger does not strike me as good design. As to the center of gravity thing...you realize that we are maybe talking 2" difference in the engine's center of gravity over a conventional engine. In the grand scheme of the car's total center of gravity, it is oversold as a feature.

The other thing is that from above or below, it is just offensive to look at compared to a traditional L or V configuration. Highly personal and subjective I realize.