What dealer are you buying from?

[taosracer]

Subaru of Keene, FTW

[(K)]

Keene is a bit of a drive for me, but if I get desperate, it might happen.

Thanks for the tip on Planet Subaru, I'll probably stop by this weekend to see if I can get more information from the local dealerships. $2,000 is double what Quirk wants, I guess they want serious buyers, but I have no issues with that seeing as I'm 90% certain I would be ordering a BRZ over an FR-S. As long as their service center is top tier, I won't have an issue.

taos, are you in Fall River?

[taosracer]

Nope, Troy NH. I'm a service adviser at Subaru of Keene Got to climb all over the car that was there today. Didn't stick around to see if we could get it on the lift. I'll wait to have mine for that

[korinfox]

They did get it on the lift, and I've got some pictures of the underbody. Tell me what you want to see, and I'll see if I got a picture of it.

[cmspooner]

Originally Posted by korinfox

They did get it on the lift, and I've got some pictures of the underbody. Tell me what you want to see, and I'll see if I got a picture of it.

Damn...i should have stuck around :-), oh well, it was still worth the drive to see it!

[charger500]

Well I figure since I heard about this post from one of my coworkers and a previous customer I should join here and see what I can offer up to help anyone. Yes, I am Corey Warren the sales manager here at Planet Subaru. I will stand out since I'm the tall skinny southern guy who will disappear if I turn sideways and hopefully you can understand my accent when it comes out.

See if I can clear up or provide some answers to a few of you. I won't name specific places, but dealerships just play games or "toy with your emotions" when it comes to cars like this, they have nothing to lose and you will just go insane asking where is my car and how much is it. Again not every place is like this, but I do this for a living and in my eyes 90% of dealerships fit my idea of the ol' school high pressure kmart suit wearing place that will do anything to swindle a few extra dollars. I still don't like going to a dealership and I do it for a living, so I don't disagree or argue with the stigma attached to the profession. Heck I was banned from a dealership in college because I pointed out the master cylinder was leaking on a car my friend test drove, haha. One thing I will say without knowing the law 100% or making a hard stance, dealerships can require some things as part of a sale just as customers require us to let's say paint this scratch, give me this accessory and it's a deal. But you can't mandate certain things as in each state there are very much clear laws for that, in regards to that topic that is as far as I will go, take from it as you may for your own financial well being or security.

Ok back to the topic at hand, I don't see any point in asking for a deposit when you don't even know the price of the car!! We all pretty much can assume it's in the mid to upper 20's depending on trim level but why have a waiting list unless someone is blunt and is like I can afford anything I don't care here is my deposit. Have no urge to call a ton of people on a list for them to go okay you are msrp, msrp plus 1,000, etc and go okay let me call the other 5 dealers I have deposits with too. There is no logic in wasting my time or your time in such a foolish matter.

We have taken the stance to not take any deposits or determine pricing until Subaru of New England announces official pricing AFTER Subaru of America announces pricing as well. Every region can tweak a price so no point in going by one figure if it's not the real one. Since we only earn 5 and we like to think we have a very loyal customer base who appreciates what we have to offer and do, I don't see many issues in selling those 5. It does not appear Subaru will change it's mind and make more to loosen up that supply number. It's why I don't want to have a list of people who get "right of first refusal" to only annoy the "real buyers" who want it no matter what and realize the engineering & financial accomplishment that has been achieved with this car.

My personal view is this car is at least MSRP but I can't in my mind justify anything beyond a $1,000 over, who knows I could be wrong but I don't think with the Scion supply as well it can command beyond that. At some point there are plenty of other car options in the 30k range that even though may not be as reliable or well built you can't deny exist. Now some dealers may say hey I earned 10, 20, 30, etc who cares and more power to them if they "give em away" but in the long run isn't worth it. Sadly a car that to me brings so much enjoyment in it's appearance, handling and interior quality (makes my z06 look like an econo car but that's not saying much) will only serve as a thorn in the side with so few to sell. I'm happy we have this car and not happy all at the same time. I think it's even worse for the consumer though. A company builds a car that is hyped on it being an affordable daily sports car for the masses that can take the track on the weekend or drift around on it's prius sourced tires but we'll make so few of them you'll be ready to jump off a bridge by the time it finally arrives at the dealership for you to take delivery.

I'm happy to answer any questions or clear up anything if needed. Only correction I would have to the earlier post is MY idea was to do a $2,000 NON-refundable deposit, it was typed as refundable in the post. To me what's the big deal what the deposit amount is if you are going to buy the car?? If you have to debate that amount you might want to decide if you are the kind of customer who needs to buy something they can see/touch or can deal with an order and waiting a few months or longer. Again we don't even have a "policy" for the pricing or selling of this car yet since we don't have prices. These were all my ideas of how this car should sell and who knows we might do just that or something completely different.

[(K)]

Corey, thank you for the post. It answered a few questions that I had in the back of my mind and also confirmed some notions that I had (and should have followed through with...but another day for that story). I know you mentioned that there's no set plan yet on BRZ sales at your dealership and you're not taking any deposits, but how will you go about when you're ready to take orders? Are you making sales to the first customer that walks through the door and signs papers or are you calling interested parties in advance for appointments and discussing it with them then?

In my opinion (and this is not directed towards any individual or dealership), this ARTIFICIAL exclusivity tactic that SoA and ToMoCO are using puts unneeded pressure on dealerships who are just trying to satisfy their customers (as opposed to a dealership that's out looking for sales). I understand you want to go about in a fair and professional manner with BRZ sales, but it doesn't seem like that's an option afforded to you. Not to mention customers who are ready to jump off bridges to obtain a "rare" car like this are prime targets for unsavory dealerships to take advantage of. It's easy to to say "just hold your horses" but human nature isn't so direct, there's ALWAYS going to be those who are innocent [read; naive] enough to be taken in by this sort of ploy and sadly there's just no way around it. Sad to say, prey will be prey (and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner), but I guess that's just the nature of the beast.

[charger500]

I love these complex multi-part questions!!! No worries let's see what I can do here for you.

- As of this minute in time, what we are doing is simply taking down customer information so that when we do have official Subaru of New England pricing we can then contact customers with whatever we feel comfortable with pricing for this car should be. Then it's as simple as who gives us their order first understanding they have to wait a bit for a car, especially if you pick let's say a super jdm awesome white limited (can you tell which one I might order?? hint hint) and everyone else in the world also ordered that car you could be in a good size line where let's say I'm guessing a red automatic premium order would probably be filled much sooner.

- Here is where I think Subaru is coming from on this car. Have to remember at the end of the day profit rules every decision, popular or not. My theory is that whole 08 STi experience still gives a few nightmares to some executives at SOA. If you aren't familiar with what I'm talking about, they redesigned that car (in my opinion for the better), increased the price to cover the improvements, didn't market it correctly (aka at all), and then made WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too many of them. Remember the 0% for 63 months and UP to $5,000 dealer cash on each unit if that dealer sold 5 of them in a two month time frame?? Those cars used today with 20 to 30k sell the same for they did new during that 'crisis' for SOA. I can understand their fear of building a two door sports car they have not done virtually ever (I do not count the RS for this) and then jumping ship from the brand's die hard image of AWD. You can always build more the next year, but you sure can't just take them back. I call that event that happened with the STi the "05 GTO plaque." Where dealers were getting msrp and over non stop for 2004 Pontiac GTO's then someone went, hey man next year LS2 replaces the LS1 with more power, crazy insane hood scoops that make it super tacky and then everyone said peace out on the 04's and they SAT forever. Dealers got stuck with them and took huge hits. Last thing SOA wants is bad publicity, can't blame them with hit after hit, so no need to expose yourself to the risk. Think how bad you look with offering this great new car you can't get rid of?? Especially with SOA trying to get a FWD Impreza sold here in the US with dealers up in arms yelling how they don't want it. All they would hear is I told you so!!

- Do I like the position we are put in?? Good lord no!! Think of the time invested in this already, haven't and can't even sell one yet and when we are able to, I'll be able to count them all on one hand!! I'm a car guy, since I was a kid and my best friends in this world are just as addicted or sick as me with cars. To me getting a car should be super fun and something like this even better. Let's be honest, most of us won't have the chance to roll down to the Ferrari or Lambo dealer and order something rare in our lifetime. So when we do spend 20K plus for anything, especially brand new for the first time it should be fun not the misery that's going on currently with this for dealers and customers. Just have to see it from SOA's side of things as well, if they didn't make good money they can't make good products like this in the future either and in all honesty they don't have a lot of experience with demand for a crazy new product like this ever. Give them a chance and if things keep going well like they have since 2008 this company will reward us with even bigger and better offerings.

- If we had our way it be sort of like WRX's when it comes to these cars. WRX's in general since the 2011 redesign don't sit in stock very long to almost having none at all. So if you walk in and go hey I want one right now and I don't want to wait when there is less then a handful in the entire region, well then you need to pay near or at list. I have a good group of customers from legacygt.com and nasioc.com who have ordered from me. My logic has always been if you can trade patience for price then place an order. Realize you will have to wait but you MUST be patient since you didn't really pay what the car deserves. In turn this leaves a unit, hopefully, on the lot that is hard to come by ready to sell, show to a customer, etc who either can't wait or won't wait. The more I sell in theory the more I could earn (pending they build them), so it's a win/win for both of us. I would love nothing more then to have a bunch of auto-x, road course, gear heads come in and order these things from us. I'd love to have a list a mile long cause to me the car is gorgeous (rare for a Subaru), cheap, built insanely well and will just drive like a car close to twice it's price tag. I could chat with you all for hours about the fun AND stupid stuff I have done with cars. Would kill to see a BRZ always in for service, back with the latest mods, hear about people crushing stupid v6 mustangs and genesis coupes in solo, road course sessions at lime rock on and on.

- Yes I did see the article tonight where Subaru says they will build 100k of these things worldwide. Not sure what that means for us here in the states, it might honestly only help just a little I'm guessing, like 10,000 units instead of 6,000. If we hear anything at all will happily pass along any news I have as well. BTW, everyone is always welcome to stop by and chat with me while I'm at work. If I'm free happy to share any knowledge, stories, news that I can pass along.


- Do we want to sell cars for over MSRP?? It feels somewhat tainted since our manufacturer says sell this car for this, but if the market demands it and supply confirms it then at the end of the day I have a responsibility to my employer and employees to maximize the opportunities afforded to me, in this case 5!! I would prefer it be like the situation I described above for the WRX or any other rare Subaru, not be stuck with this cap on units but if they don't make them then there simply isn't enough to do that type of selling with either. We don't have the urge to gouge anyone, we just want to make sure what we do is fair and that when we do place an order for a customer they know it's their order and I'm not going to sell that car to someone else who paid more or who has a nicer trade, who decides to finance with me, etc.

Ok I'm done talking non stop, any more questions??

[(K)]

Spoken like the true car nut we were lead to believe.

While I don't disagree with your reasoning, I absolutely do not like the situation you're in with your handful of BRZs. I feel like it's a complete scam and you can't help but feel like SoA is playing favorites. Sure it's somewhat of a "reward" to those that sold more to earn their allotment, but it's a method that's ripe with flaws. What if you didn't want to buy from "dealer A" because of factors such as service, distance, etc? Granted you could always go elsewhere and buy another car, but that's beside the point. How fair is it to you, as the dealership, to be given only "x" amount of cars when you might have a mile long list of potential buyers? Or the consumer, pretty much being told "better luck next time" because you wanted to buy from a particular dealer but couldn't because of allotment? I'm putting myself in your shoes and, personally, seems like I would have space to fill because I don't know how you do it. I'm not sure how I would go about doing this in a way where you don't have customers feeling like they weren't given a chance at the car. Raffle? Lol.

To be frank though, I'm 100% certain there will be more than enough to go around. My beef is with the potential for some unscrupulous transactions between a person that just wants to own a marvelous piece of machinery and a dealership that wants to take advantage of that person for every penny they can (again, not pointing at any dealerships in particular, just posing a hypothetical situation). I'm sure it's no different than an everyday purchase, but I feel as though this is giving some dealerships unnecessary leverage.

[charger500]

Thank you sir for your kind words. To me buying a car should be fun, even if it's a simple base Forester for your family. For too long it got made into something people dreaded instead of looked forward to. Sadly probably still means that to most people. Hell look at this thread, haha.

There was an equation used, which I won't post the exact formula since I'm not sure if it's allowed or not. It took a % of sales from WRX/STi's sold in 2011 calendar year and then another % of just total 2011 calendar year subaru sales. So the logic was if a dealer just sells a ton in general he'll probably have a large enough customer/repeat base who would have some interest, and if that dealer tends to sell the sports cars more often it will help in the formula for them to earn more BRZ's. Where I think the formula failed is that after the tsunami last year certain dealers had what very few wrx's and sti's existed in all of new england. To get more of something especially when they build so few you have to sell them. So, as even I would have done, those dealers never gave them up to another dealer and sold them. More power to them I guess, they were in the right place at the right time and in return the formula used for the BRZ worked out really well for them. I can say 5 is very few but without knowing how many scion's come to the US and how many BRZ's now with recent news it's hard to say how many is too many or enough, would be a guess.

I can say 5 does sound like too few to keep previous customers of our establishment happy who want to continue their relationship with us. It also makes it feel impossible to do that AND create new ones. You play the cards your dealt. Everyone would love to sell more and more but if they are spread thin globally then so be it. For now if I was a customer I would just be patient, but if you had no choice and realize the value of the car, don't want to risk waiting forever or not getting a certain combo then just order it. You won't be upset when you have one before almost anyone else, how could you??

[M-17]

Originally Posted by charger500

Thank you sir for your kind words. To me buying a car should be fun, even if it's a simple base Forester for your family. For too long it got made into something people dreaded instead of looked forward to. Sadly probably still means that to most people. Hell look at this thread, haha.

There was an equation used, which I won't post the exact formula since I'm not sure if it's allowed or not. It took a % of sales from WRX/STi's sold in 2011 calendar year and then another % of just total 2011 calendar year subaru sales. So the logic was if a dealer just sells a ton in general he'll probably have a large enough customer/repeat base who would have some interest, and if that dealer tends to sell the sports cars more often it will help in the formula for them to earn more BRZ's. Where I think the formula failed is that after the tsunami last year certain dealers had what very few wrx's and sti's existed in all of new england. To get more of something especially when they build so few you have to sell them. So, as even I would have done, those dealers never gave them up to another dealer and sold them. More power to them I guess, they were in the right place at the right time and in return the formula used for the BRZ worked out really well for them. I can say 5 is very few but without knowing how many scion's come to the US and how many BRZ's now with recent news it's hard to say how many is too many or enough, would be a guess.

I can say 5 does sound like too few to keep previous customers of our establishment happy who want to continue their relationship with us. It also makes it feel impossible to do that AND create new ones. You play the cards your dealt. Everyone would love to sell more and more but if they are spread thin globally then so be it. For now if I was a customer I would just be patient, but if you had no choice and realize the value of the car, don't want to risk waiting forever or not getting a certain combo then just order it. You won't be upset when you have one before almost anyone else, how could you??

That's what I'm doing, since patience is a virtue.

[charger500]

Trust me I would love to say, come down all the cool gear heads and order these things for invoice or whatever realizing you have to wait and be patient, finance wherever as you wish, etc. Even if Subaru does get more I don't think it will be a below invoice type of car. You have to realize Subaru has jack for mark up in them anyway so I think IF they made enough it would be like an MSRP or so car if it's "on the ground ready to go" where orders would be less, again sort of like the WRX formula. The difference between invoice and msrp on a limited will probably be like $1,400 to $1,500 (using current $29,000 msrp subaru mark up) so when people go oh no sticker it's not like we are talking about thousands of mark up. It's probably why I don't see the logic in waiting 6 months to a year to save a tiny bit when you can have the newest car on the scene for the entire spring/summer but that's just me. I bought my last three cars without seeing any of them in person, just had photos and inspection report, just because of their colors and options realizing I had to pay a little more to get what I wanted. Only got one life to live so might as well live it. I can't imagine telling someone I paid like 30,000 for something I wasn't really going after cause it wasn't the ideal combo if another 1,000 or so made you happy. Seems a small price to pay for happiness.

I'll keep you all in the loop when or if we hear anything. In the meantime feel free to ask questions.

[(K)]

I agree that patience is a virtue and I'm also a fan of delayed gratification. In this situation though, I can't justify waiting that amount of time to save that amount of money. For reasons Corey stated, it really is just a drop in the bucket. Sure someone might be able to say "I paid MSRP or less AND I got exactly what I wanted", but there's a varying degree of legwork involved there. I mean I'm not a "latest and greatest" kind of guy and I KNOW the rewards of doing your legwork, but in the big picture, I'd like to be driving this sucker before my beater gives out.

Though we're enthusiasts of different automotive backgrounds, I'm sure we can ALL spot a good thing when we see it and that's why we're on these boards. Whether or not you saved $50 or $5,000 on a car purchase means NOTHING to your fellow enthusiast. It's the normal people that'll say "you paid HOW MUCH for that?".

[charger500]

I mean to me if someone wouldn't pay msrp for this car to know they get one right away when there is jack for mark up, buy it from a dealer you trust who actually knows what they are talking about who will be able to answer your questions now and into the future then honestly I would question your sanity in person all day long. If you are curious I have worked here since July 2004. Went to school first as a mechanical engineer, had a brief stint at NASA, realized I would end my life if I stayed an engineer and then changed majors to sociology and science & technology. Never thought I end up here but glad I did!! On another note, if you are a car nut, working at a dealership is possibly the worst thing to financially do to yourself ever haha.