Are you willing to push your car off a cliff?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Black Tire

Accidents do happen, but the risks can be mitigated with thoughtful driving - as said in many posts already. Ask around and pick a club or organization in your area with good people and track rules created with safety in mind. Then, if you are new to the track, insist on having an instructor you are compatible with ride with you during every session. The instructor should be skilled enough to know when you are driving over your head and either talk you into slowing down until you learn more or take you into the pits for a talk (or both). Since you seem to be the cautious type, a good instructor may need to push you to go just a little faster as well, so get someone you can trust. If you enjoy autocrossing, you should be able to enjoy a longer track given a situation you feel comfortable with. If you realize that your goal in a HPDE is to enjoy your car at speeds that are not safe on public roads, NOT to race or set the fastest time, you should be fine. If you want to race there are other places for that.

For myself, I am considering buying track day insurance for my next event(s). Since I am an instructor (15 years with the BMWCCA), I usually don't pay for track time so a few hundred for insurance may be worth it. By the way, you don't need a BMW to join the BMW club and participate in events. SCCA and NASA are other good sources to look at when choosing a club. The best club for you will depend on where you are, what is available, and most importantly the people who are in your local club.

Thanks for the advice. Could I get a ride along the next time you're up at BIR (no intention to drive)?

[Asterisked Accolade]

I am not willing to push my car off a cliff, but also, i'm not racing competitively. I'm running my car in HPDE and there isn't a lot of pushing for position or driving 10/10s to pass on the outside of the carousel or anything. In fact, they dissuade people from passing in the corners and suggest waiting for the straights. I suppose the primary things i have to worry about are my cars' systems holding up. There are other variables, but i don't think it's as dangerous as competitive driving.

[Gixxersixxerman]

This is so true in my motorcycle trackdays.. If you can't run down the straight for the first time, and in the first corner be willing to accept you can dump the bike and ruin it... Then you don't need to be at the track with it.. Because just like that it can happen.. I've taken it to the track one
Ce, my new bike.. And that's it.. I lost the front in the bowl at SoW and saved it on my knee.. I pulled it straight in and started pulling the tape off and packing thing up..

That said.. My State Farm insurance at the time caved both my car and bike as long as it was a HPDE and not competition.. I haven't checked with USAA yet.. My State Farm did say that each and every claim submitted is looked at and she can not and will not say that my claim would be accepted if something did happen

I believe in that environment, your liable for just yourself correct.. I mean if someone plowed through me for a mistake on either end.. It's just small claims court right.. And even then your not guarantee a settlement, because you took the risk to put yourself into that situation right?? If someone spins in front of me, who's at fault, him for spinning or me for hitting him.. Or vise versa.. The 2 second rule apply at the track?? Lol

[Ro_Ja]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

That said.. My State Farm insurance at the time caved both my car and bike as long as it was a HPDE and not competition.. I haven't checked with USAA yet.. My State Farm did say that each and every claim submitted is looked at and she can not and will not say that my claim would be accepted if something did happen

I'd be interested in hearing what USAA says. I've read mixed things. There was even a post where someone was dropped by them over just asking about coverage.

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by Ro_Ja

I'd be interested in hearing what USAA says. I've read mixed things. There was even a post where someone was dropped by them over just asking about coverage.

Thanks.. I'll have my pops look it up on the Internet.. He has a copy of all the policy stuff, that he used when we rented a uhaul trailer and was told USAA coved the trailer not to get the coverage from uhaul.. Sure enough.. With his policy it was covered..

[BoostinIX]

All part of the risk.

First time out, 9:05AM.

Before:



After:









Solid concrete wall is solid. :P Autocross is about as safe as you're going to get crash-wise, but still quite the strain on parts.

[7thgear]

I don't think the "push your car off a cliff" metaphor is appropriate. Because if it was true then you shouldn't be driving your car at all.

Accidents at race tracks occur 80% of driver error, 10% weather,4% mechanical and 1% dumb luck.

If you stay away from rainy days, maintain your car, and don't drive like an idiot you will be safe for many laps.

All of my offs and incidents at the track, even during rainy days, were a result of my own stupidity, and they ONLY happened when I was going at 100%.

The moment you turn it down a notch, even a little bit, you get grip everywhere and the whole experience becomes much less hectic. This is what lapping days are, essentially.


So the question should be not "would you care if you pushed your car off a cliff" but "how good does your brain work and are you willing to endure a journey of humility and self-discovery through meticulous trial and error?"

If you go to a track with the mentality that you will crash, then you WILL crash.

*Also I would like to point out that there are tracks which chew cars up for the smallest mistakes and there are tracks that you can drive blind-folded while drinking scotch and jerking off and nothing would happen to you. So make the smart choice and don't start out from the high end tracks.

[BlaineWasHere]

INSURANCE! THAT'S WHAT IT EXISTS FOR!

[D1cker]

That's why I downgraded from an M3 to the FR-S. I'm more comfortable with the cost of crashing it.

[BlaineWasHere]

Originally Posted by D1cker

That's why I downgraded from an M3 to the FR-S. I'm more comfortable with the cost of crashing it.

That's one of the reasons I just bought the FR-S in the first place!!!

[Tt3Sheppard]

I'm curious as to how many on here are tracking and also have a lien on the car. I think I'll be pushing mine at about 70-80%. Limerock is pretty unforgiving with mistakes.

[celica73]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I don't think the "push your car off a cliff" metaphor is appropriate. Because if it was true then you shouldn't be driving your car at all.

Accidents at race tracks occur 80% of driver error, 10% weather,4% mechanical and 1% dumb luck.

If you stay away from rainy days, maintain your car, and don't drive like an idiot you will be safe for many laps.

What happens when the drivers around you aren't playing by the same set of rules?

Auto insurance policies vary from state to state, but in NC are likely covered, but you will also need a new insurance carrier after a claim (been there, done that - USAA gave me the boot). It's nice that my current insurance agent is also a track/autocross guy. i can call him and ask the hard questions without fear of reprisal.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by celica73

What happens when the drivers around you aren't playing by the same set of rules?

you report them to the organizers and they get kicked off the track or black listed all-together

if you're at an event that does not have such a policy or iron-handed organizers that put safety above all else, then don't go to such events.

in the states you guys have the whole HPDE thing and graduated licensing, as far as i know people that start out fresh have to ride with instructors for a year before they can go out by themselves.

we have a similar system, other clubs/organizers don't

choose where you wish to play


* for instance, at all of our events passing is point by and only at designated areas (such as straights). No racing for corners or diving bombing. If our marshals see you breaking this rule or another driver reports you for such reckless behavior, your day is over and we send you home. We state this explicitly at each drivers meeting early in the morning and we make sure everyone attends the driver's meeting.

[Hanakuso]

I used lockton affinity every time I go to the track