my perspective on the 'dip'

[perryair]

other than the perceived (or real, however your car history and perspective dictates) lack of power, the second biggest gripe that i seem to hear about our beloved twins is the infamous dip. i take no claim of being an expert of any type, im just an adult that knows reasonably well how to street drive a stick and have taken my brz from stock to oft stage 1 to headers+oft stage 2.

on to my .02:

bone stock, its absolutely true, if you want to avoid the dip and can just drive the thing like its on permanent boil then you for the most part miss having to deal with it (but then youre forced have to drive like that - unless youre on a fun backroad it isnt easy to maintain). the only areas that it was really pronounced was 1) at highway speed, where you had to downshift 6 to 5 to have any hope of passing and 2) if you were driving normally or a tiny bit aggressively and wanted an immediate go - so for example you're in second gear after you didnt come off of the line in first assured that you were going to floor it and then did so after you ended up in second without a ton of rpms behind you - you could feel the engine crest that power to you instead of giving it in one constant push.

going to stage 1 really did help things, you could tell when you were deep into old 'dip' territory when the valvetrain got much louder than stock - the sound helped along by a subtle increase in power there did help to somewhat fix things, such as no longer needing to downshift at highway speeds to pass someone sensibly and a nice 'seat of the pants feel' that up in high rpms that there was some more grunt. it was worth it.

going to stage 2+uel has been interesting because i think the primary thing that i've noticed is that i dont wring it within half an inch of its life as much anymore, because it feels like that at 6k range that you have as much power as you did previously at redline, and you're much more aware of the power you do have because it builds more linearly while youre getting there. no more issues with immediately deciding that i wanted to go fast if i was driving sensibly or even slow at the time. the back tires used to chirp at the redline powershift and now they squiggle loose fairly hard even if you shift at that 6k range. and at redline you really start to feel some real grunt.

in any case, i think the car was worth the money stock, i think that stage 1 was worth the mainly highway driving bump and i think that going headers+oft is an extremely cost effective way into feeling not like you have a musclecar by any means, but that the car does what you want it to do when you tell it to do so - no more preplanning screaming it to 7400 to get a grin. fun can be a bit more spontaneous.

[Scrappydoo]

There you go then.

[funwheeldrive]

I'm still stock, but will probably address the torque-dip after my car is paid off.


I don't mind the relatively low power of the car, but the dip can be annoying at times. My 99 Integra GSR was slower, but the linear powerband made it more predictable to drive, and easier to get perfect downshifts.

[8RZ]

Coming from a boosted car with some turbo lag, I don't even notice the dip lol.

[bababooey]

agreed, i less feel need to get to redline as often post headers+tune as a means to get somewhere.

[ichitaka05]

For the tq dip, it's just the Boxer engine's characteristic. Even look at Porsche boxer engine, they still have tq dip (very tiny, but still there)

To the point: Boxer engine is famous for tq dip

[Teseo]

I will add power blocks to bring more power under the curve, lets say below 6500rpm.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

For the tq dip, it's just the Boxer engine's characteristic. Even look at Porsche boxer engine, they still have tq dip (very tiny, but still there)

To the point: Boxer engine is famous for tq dip

granted ive never driven a porsche but id imagine that since the entire tq curve is set higher than the twins that you dont feel as much like that youre dragging when you hit it. similar to the old honda vtec, having a crazy peak in a powerband isnt a bad thing, but having a trough where you are stuck for a chunk of your powerband with roughly 100 tq to the wheels makes it feel slower than it is. the old na caymans curve appears to be shallower and you have about 150tq to the wheels at their dip.

again, just my .02.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by perryair

granted ive never driven a porsche but id imagine that since the entire tq curve is set higher than the twins that you dont feel as much like that youre dragging when you hit it. similar to the old honda vtec, having a crazy peak in a powerband isnt a bad thing, but having a trough where you are stuck for a chunk of your powerband with roughly 100 tq to the wheels makes it feel slower than it is. the old na caymans curve appears to be shallower and you have about 150tq to the wheels at their dip.

again, just my .02.

Don't forget, 2.8~3 liter 6 cylinder boxer engine do kill tq dip better than tiny 2 liter 4 cylinder boxer engine.

[davesrave]

I doubt you guys care but the automatic trans compensates pretty well by slipping and shifting such that the dip isn't a problem, at least in my experience.

[humfrz]

My perspective on the so called torque dip in this engine, is that it's a concern of those that are in the generation of "instant gratification" .......

humfrz

[Scrappydoo]

Originally Posted by humfrz

My perspective on the so called torque dip in this engine, is that it's a concern of those that are in the generation of "instant gratification" .......

humfrz

It's the most talked about rule in dodgeball. What about the others I say?

It just feels like a what used to be a heavily cammed engine. Just with a dose of low down torque. What's not to like?

[Lantana frs]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

For the tq dip, it's just the Boxer engine's characteristic. Even look at Porsche boxer engine, they still have tq dip (very tiny, but still there)

To the point: Boxer engine is famous for tq dip

If that were the case it wouldn't be so easy to tune out.

[churchx]

I'm also thinking like that. UEL or Ace header and dip is gone? How it's "engine's characteristic" then?