UEL vs EL and Longterm Use

[SatinWhitePearl]

Originally Posted by reeves

Yea, I like my EL header sound too! rumble, smumble..

I believe it sounds more raw, less broken.

What I can't believe people are saying is that the EL manifold sounds like a Honda; I daily a '11 Honda Civic Si Sedan and the exhaust note has little to no similarity to my STi's exhaust note - at all.

[SillySaxon]

https://www.youtube.com/user/FT86Spe...?query=exhaust

there, /thread on sound.

If you want to make the argument about speakers (which is valid for bass and treble) you can watch the same one on multiple devices.
Sorry, but IMO the rasp is there on EL no matter what I watch it on.

[Silver Ignition]

Gonna bring this thread back from the dead real quick.

Let me get this straight; EL = more power, torque and eliminated torque dip // UEL = Subaru rumble.



I'm one of those rare breeds (judging by the lack of YouTube videos on EL headers) who actually DOESN'T want my car to sound like a Subaru. I was the one who was originally put off by the Flat-4, and avoided buying this car for almost a year before needing a car and closing my eyes and just signing papers. So I know I want an EL header but I don't want the aforementioned "Honda Rasp". Catted EL header possibly? I have the TRD cat-back now. Has anyone else installed a Catted EL Header with TRD cat-back, or am I getting too specific now?

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

Gonna bring this thread back from the dead real quick.

Let me get this straight; EL = more power, torque and eliminated torque dip // UEL = Subaru rumble.

People keep posting that nonsense and nothing could be further from the truth. UEL has just as much power potential as EL headers. What matters is the quality and design of the header and who tunes it.

Essentially it boils down to get which ever style you want/prefer from a quality manufacturer, get a tune from a reputable tuner, and be happy.

[murdoc]

Originally Posted by Malt

People keep posting that nonsense and nothing could be further from the truth. UEL has just as much power potential as EL headers. What matters is the quality and design of the header and who tunes it.

Essentially it boils down to get which ever style you want/prefer from a quality manufacturer, get a tune from a reputable tuner, and be happy.

If that is the case...why do they even make EL headers? The packaging on UEL is so much easier.

[husker741]

Originally Posted by Malt

People keep posting that nonsense and nothing could be further from the truth. UEL has just as much power potential as EL headers. What matters is the quality and design of the header and who tunes it.

Essentially it boils down to get which ever style you want/prefer from a quality manufacturer, get a tune from a reputable tuner, and be happy.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by murdoc

If that is the case...why do they even make EL headers? The packaging on UEL is so much easier.

Misconceptions about power potential is a reason and EL headers for twinscroll setups is another. Sound is a common reason cited for wanting an EL vs UEL.

Also, take a look at the stock header on our car. People say that its UEL but it looks pretty EL to me with a 4 into 2 into 1 setup. If it is UEL, then it only is by a very small amount.

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

Gonna bring this thread back from the dead real quick.

Let me get this straight; EL = more power, torque and eliminated torque dip // UEL = Subaru rumble.



I'm one of those rare breeds (judging by the lack of YouTube videos on EL headers) who actually DOESN'T want my car to sound like a Subaru. I was the one who was originally put off by the Flat-4, and avoided buying this car for almost a year before needing a car and closing my eyes and just signing papers. So I know I want an EL header but I don't want the aforementioned "Honda Rasp". Catted EL header possibly? I have the TRD cat-back now. Has anyone else installed a Catted EL Header with TRD cat-back, or am I getting too specific now?

You're looking at negligible power gains if you're talking N/A. I'll put my JDL UEL up against the best EL headers for N/A. Turbo is a different story as you will see a wider gap in performance the more you go up in horsepower. EL's seem to be fairly raspy unless you have a quiet exhaust. The front pipe can also affect the sound as well as the size of the pipe. Keep it 2.5" if you can.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by Malt

People keep posting that nonsense and nothing could be further from the truth. UEL has just as much power potential as EL headers. What matters is the quality and design of the header and who tunes it.

Essentially it boils down to get which ever style you want/prefer from a quality manufacturer, get a tune from a reputable tuner, and be happy.

Wrong. EL has the potential for more power as you can "tune" the runner length to scavenge (basically vacuum) the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder at certain RPMs. The longer the duration of your cams the more effective this becomes. Not all EL headers will produce a better torque curve than the UELs though because they also can have the wrong runner length and creat back pressure to the cylinder at certain RPMs.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Wrong. EL has the potential for more power as you can "tune" the runner length to scavenge (basically vacuum) the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder at certain RPMs. The longer the duration of your cams the more effective this becomes. Not all EL headers will produce a better torque curve than the UELs though because they also can have the wrong runner length and creat back pressure to the cylinder at certain RPMs.

Do you have any proof of a single EL header on the market that makes more power than a UEL, that is of equal quality, and tuned by the same tuner?

Until someone presents this evidence, you are just repeating the same line that every fan boy uses to support their own decision to buy which product they did. My assertion is that the real differences people are seeing in dyno charts are from variances between dyno's and a tuners ability to properly tune a car.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by Malt

Do you have any proof of a single EL header on the market that makes more power than a UEL, that is of equal quality, and tuned by the same tuner?

Until someone presents this evidence, you are just repeating the same line that every fan boy uses to support their own decision to buy which product they did. My assertion is that the real differences people are seeing in dyno charts are from variances between dyno's and a tuners ability to properly tune a car.

I don't own a header. The only comparison dyno's I could find were the HKS EL to the Borla UEL, not really a comparison of equal quality. I think the best comparison would be the JDL EL to JDL UEL but I'm not sure such a dyno exists at present.
@moto-mike @Drift-Office @Circuit Motorsports @DeliciousTuning would any of you guys have some dyno sheets you could post to prove or disprove the UEL vs EL for good?

[phrosty]

Originally Posted by Malt

Do you have any proof of a single EL header on the market that makes more power than a UEL, that is of equal quality, and tuned by the same tuner?

Vishnu already stated that, equally tuned, they were able to get more out of their UEL than any EL they've used. Biased so take it with a grain of salt, but they haven't exactly BSed people yet...

[Malt]

Originally Posted by phrosty

Vishnu already stated that, equally tuned, they were able to get more out of their UEL than any EL they've used. Biased so take it with a grain of salt, but they haven't exactly BSed people yet...

I'm well aware of Shiv's comments on UEL headers vs EL headers. Its one of the reasons I have his OFH. That being said, I've only seen shiv's charts when comparing EL and UEL and he sells headers. Independent sources are usually preferable to eliminate potential sources of bias, however small they may be.

[Xero-Limit]

Misconception is that an equal length is the only one that does scavenging. In reality, the equal length simply does scavenging better. As to the degree of that, it really has way more to do with each application. My own experience is that on an NA application, a well designed and built UEL will outdo an EL that has poor fitment and a sub-par collector. Many times the compromises to make a true EL header involve sacrifices elsewhere or more weight. Then there's the cost.

BRZ/FRS/86 specific, the EL headers all have the same dyno curve just about. A bit of a loss at under 3k, then a big hump, followed with some peaks and valleys. That is where the scavenging really helps and the VE is optimized. You can see below of the typical power curves, blue is UEL. Curves are a bit exaggerated due to scaling and the fact that we have it spinning to 8000 RPM! Also keep in mind the dyno chart below is on different cars, so the final hp numbers can't be compared. Just the shape of the power band.



So in reality there are no winners or losers here. Just pick one based on the sound quality and craftsmanship. Then pick your powerband.