Adequate/Inadequate power for DD on stock BRZ?

[Capt Spaulding]

Most of the comments do a good job of debunking the myth of the underpowered twin. It seems to me the complaints about the car being underpowered are the result of a couple of things. First, we're surrounded by a new generation of supercars boasting power outputs far in excess of those of earlier generations of sports cars. Mid 80s Ferraris (e.g 308) produced power figures in the 200 to 275 range and they were among the hottest cars of the day. In the 90s, the 360 made almost 400 HP out of a 3.6 liter engine. Not much better than the specific power output of a NA FA20. The problem is expectations. We live in a world where we've become used to high output engines. This isn't a bad thing, but the expectations it creates lead us to demand ever bigger numbers.

The other problem is the automotive press. They take the horsepower wars and make their meager livings trying to convince the rest of us that if our car doesn't compete in that game parts of our anatomies must be abnormally small. That is non-sense. How may of the people on this board could, on a regular basis make full use of a 350hp BRZ? I'm not talking stop light to stop light bullshit. My bet is, if you took the nannies off the car, there are very few here and anywhere else for that matter who could stay out of the ditches with that kind of urge under our right foot.

The car has plenty of power in it's stock form. Would I object to 20 or 30 or 100 more? Not for a second. Would I be able to routinely let those ponies run on the street. Not even for a fraction of that second.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by kb3dow

I am toying with the idea getting myself a BRZ (stick, ltd+PP).
Many of the comments/review on the web/youtube keep referring to inadequate power (and comparing it to be slower than a family van)- but then I realize most people saying that are just looking at the paper specs.

In all likelihood I will be using it for daily driving and don't foresee myself doing track time. Currently drive an '05 AT V6 Accord with 175K and am happy with its performance/acceleration. If I do get the BRZ I might still keep the Accord as its trade-in value is pittance compared to its utility (to carry stuff/family when needed).

WRT city/highway driving does the BRZ have the power to pass/weave highway traffic with ease? Here in MD, speed limit + 15 seems to be the norm. I have taken a test drive in a BRZ but didn't gun the engine and the 15-20 minute ride was too short to tell.

My take;

Stock = good car with lovely feel and handling, not fast but fast enough to have fun and easily fast enough to break the speed limit.

Add headers + tune = lose the torque dip and makes the car soooo much better as a daily, plus more driveable in the rpm midrange. Personally love this mod the most.
Add e85/flex fuel. A solid bump of power (again for only a little extra cash). Personally loved this mod too.
I did the headers/tune/flexfuel all together.

Boost. Many options, costs quite a bit and other considerations like heat, maintenance, etc become part of the mods you need to consider.
I ultimately went the SC route and while I dig the extra power it’s really not hugely necessary if you do headers etc above.

Bang for buck. The headers/tune/e85 combo is best, low maintenance on the mods and made it a super car for driving to work etc.
If you have some cash, boost rocks

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

How may of the people on this board could, on a regular basis make full use of a 350hp BRZ? I'm not talking stop light to stop light bullshit. My bet is, if you took the nannies off the car, there are very few here and anywhere else for that matter who could stay out of the ditches with that kind of urge under our right foot.

I track my car. I have spun it at speed. I have experienced the joy it brings when driven to the limit. I rode in a 340whp supercharged BRZ and it scared the shit out of me.

The only time I wish I had a bit more power is when I can't get a damn point by, or I see a hot soccer mom and she pulls away at the light.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The 0 to 60 is one second slower and the 1/4 mile is .8 slower than a 2015 WRX. Some people like to call it "slow" but it is still faster than the majority of cars on the road. Yes there are faster ones which include some high end minivans but the whole concept of "everything can beat it" is just silly.
The torque dip lasts about a tenth of a second if rowing through the gears at heavy acceleration. Big problem if trying to set drag time records but a total non issue when merging onto a freeway. There is plenty of torque still there even in the dip but if you drive around at 3.5K and expect to just floor it and shoot ahead then you will be disappointed. You actually have to shift gears and drove this car not just push a pedal and take off. During daily driving, in most conditions, you can be a greater than the speed of traffic in a few seconds and never even have to get up to the torque dip. This whole concept of having to drive around at redline in order to have enough power on city streets is just the Vin Diesel wanttabes thinking that all driving must be done balls out.

I’m 52 years old so I remember cars that used to go 0-60 in 8-10 seconds was normal. It’s more recently that we seem to have Mustang GT is low 4sec 0-60. For the price of my tS I could have bought a V8 Mustang but really feel better with a lower power car that need to work at getting speeds rather than a big power car that I need to keep the speeds in the safe range.

Here’s the BRZ test
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...al-test-review

[kb3dow]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

...
Here’s the BRZ test
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...al-test-review

These are the types of reviews/comments that had me asking the question in the first place.
To quote, the first para of the review says that -

"After four years of sameness, the too-buzzy, too-slow BRZ was beginning to look like the sports coupe the world had forgotten. "

[Turbowned]

I went from a '13 BRZ and '04 WRX STi to an '05 Porsche 911S (355hp) and '03 Audi RS6 (515hp, tuned) and back to a BRZ. Do I miss the power? YES! Does the BRZ need more power? YE.... well, kinda.

I have way more fun at low speeds than I ever had in both of those cars. Highway/top speed, yes, obviously having a bigger engine and more power is better. But when you're trying to reasonably obey the speed limits and still have a good time on the street, the BRZ is great! Also, the lower weight and smaller wheels/brakes and lower fuel consumption make it a great candidate for a track car, which is why I chose it... again. I couldn't afford to campaign either of the Germans at the track consistently and that made me sad.

So yes, get one. Add a couple choice mods and you should be golden, but don't go overboard because I made that mistake with my first one; if you end up being into it for $40k or more, it seems like less of a value (hence why I replaced my first one with a 911). The reviewers on this car are too harsh. I drove an MX-5 Club and a 124 Spider Abarth, too before deciding on another BRZ. The only other car I drove which was sorta in the running was an Alfa Romeo 4C but I decided to save the thirty grand (which I really never had in the first place) and be sensible.

I also have to say, going from the 2013 to the 2017 was really a step up; the series of subtle improvements were all very welcome and make the car a much more cohesive package. The revised gearing and nominal power bump help it feel more urgent, and the Performance Pack was a huge selling point for me because I knew I couldn't get a nice set of aftermarket wheels, dampers, AND big brakes for anywhere near $1100 in the aftermarket.

Hope this helps!

[why?]

If you are looking for a 2 door rear wheel drive sports car, the only reason not to get a BRZ is you can afford a Cayman, 4C or 911.

[Rai-zero]

here's the thing, many car reviewers can drive 500hp supercars and then they'll see a little inexpensive car like the BRZ and won't realize they are in a car that costs $27K (not $270K).

Of course I realize Mustangs and other cars are cheap and fast but they are not light. Take two cheap, fast or light. All the light-ish cars like Cayman or Lotus cost a lot more money than the Mustang or BRZ.

Anyway Doug DeMuro is sometimes clever and entertaining to watch, but sometimes he'll just go overboard with things. He may see the BRZ is not a grunt monster so he's all about it's slower than shit. That's not true, it's as quick as Civic Si (which costs the same) and heck almost GTi as well. It's not a V8 Mustang we get it, but that doesn't mean it's slower than shit.

So Doug does this video and says the FR-S/BRZ is so slow that his old Skyline is much quicker and he pretends to do a drag race but he just goes like 0-20 in ten seconds in the BRZ almost like you can not drive it that slow.

The point is the old Skyline probably wouldn't be *that much* quicker in the straight line race. Maybe it would be faster than the BRZ but a heck $29K V8 Mustang would slaughter it.

IMO that's just being a jerk move to say the BRZ too slow and not even try to rev it up and do a somewhat race.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGjUDX9xX5E"]Scion FR-S vs. Nissan Skyline GT-R: Would You Rather? - YouTube[/ame]

[Rai-zero]

As I've said, I could have bought a V8 Mustang or a Cayman. Both are quicker but one half a ton heavier and the other twice the cost.

I owned the S2000, the BRZ is almost as quick and the BRZ feels more stable and planted in the corners and at speed. (note I have the tS with better tires, but any BRZ would benefit from these tires).

I owned a V8 M3 as well so I know what a quick car is. The M3 DDCT is 18 MPH quicker trap speed in the 1/4 mile which is a lot.

I'm giving the M3 9 out of 10 for acceleration and the BRZ maybe just 6 out of 10. But for fun to drive they're both very close. The M3 is a great all around car but you don't have to da anything to go fast just step on the gas. The BRZ, you kind of need to work at it, what gear are you in, what's you're revs and road speed and what speed with the next corner or turn be at so you need to shift to be where you should be.

I don't have too much high rpms on my car because I'm trying to be gentle at the break in but once I got past 400-500 and now 600 miles I have cheated a bit. I set the rev warning to 4300 and I found that if I shift it at 7000 the next gear I'll still be at/near 5000 so I'm always in the power peak and then I can shift each time quickly not needing to be in 2,3,4,5000 RPM it's just 5-7K RPM most of the time.

C&D said their best time for BRZ was from launching at 5000 clutch drop and you're at the power. Most people don't drive like that so you still will need to slog past 2,3,4K RPM but once moving just keep in one lower gear than you think (if you want to feel more power).

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

The point is the old Skyline probably wouldn't be *that much* quicker in the straight line race. Maybe it would be faster than the BRZ but a heck $29K V8 Mustang would slaughter it.

R32 gtr stock was quoted at 13.4 1/4 mile. So.... a decent amount faster than a twin.

[rvoll]

Since I just purchased an 18 BRZ, my wife asked me why I didn't go for the Cayman. We can afford it, so that isn't the issue. I told her that the BRZ was just more fun. You feel the road more. It handles like you're riding on rails. It just makes you feel alive. I owned Porsches for 27 years with up to 600 hp, and stepping on the gas and pushing your heads hard against the headrest was a blast. But other than putting people in the car at night, and giving them the "experience", as a daily driver, it was just not fun. I worried about it in the parking lots. I worried about it being stolen. Even small dents cost a fortune to repair. Finding really good Porsche mechanics was not easy. And if you have something even semi-major, it cost a fortune to repair. I replaced a steering rack and it cost me close to $7k. A tune-up with a good mechanic was at least $800 NOT including the oil change which ran about $400.

The first sports car I bought new was a 1969 Triumph TR-6 with 102hp. The BRZ reminds me of the fun I had with that car. Will I miss the 600hp? On very rare occasions, yes. But when I drive this car every day, it will be hard to wipe the smile off of my face.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

R32 gtr stock was quoted at 13.4 1/4 mile. So.... a decent amount faster than a twin.

BRZ (see test I posted) 0-60 6.2s
Skyline (from my search) 0-60 5.4s

that's quicker but it's not like you're saying the Skyline is a 4 second car. A better argument would have been a BRZ vs a 430hp Mustang GT. This test is like one medium fast car against another slightly faster car. Not like they are that far apart. True quarter mile would tell but mostly people would do 0-60 at a typical stoplight. 100+ MPH is go to jail speed.

Doug probably didn't want to wind up the Skyline and launch it or maybe the owner of the BRZ didn't want him to launch it, this car in not like a DCT Porsche that can easily be launched.

Plus any given Sunday the BRZ could sometimes get close.

All these tests take the best times so they may have several slower so then a slower Skyline launch may meet a quick BRZ launch.

But we'll never know because Doug isn't selling that narrative he's selling the BRZ is slow.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Since I just purchased an 18 BRZ, my wife asked me why I didn't go for the Cayman. We can afford it, so that isn't the issue. I told her that the BRZ was just more fun. You feel the road more. It handles like you're riding on rails. It just makes you feel alive. I owned Porsches for 27 years with up to 600 hp, and stepping on the gas and pushing your heads hard against the headrest was a blast. But other than putting people in the car at night, and giving them the "experience", as a daily driver, it was just not fun. I worried about it in the parking lots. I worried about it being stolen. Even small dents cost a fortune to repair. Finding really good Porsche mechanics was not easy. And if you have something even semi-major, it cost a fortune to repair. I replaced a steering rack and it cost me close to $7k. A tune-up with a good mechanic was at least $800 NOT including the oil change which ran about $400.

The first sports car I bought new was a 1969 Triumph TR-6 with 102hp. The BRZ reminds me of the fun I had with that car. Will I miss the 600hp? On very rare occasions, yes. But when I drive this car every day, it will be hard to wipe the smile off of my face.

My wife said too that I should get the Cayman instead. I felt like the Cayman was great but not worth 1.5-2x the price. Sure could have got a 6 year old Cayman for something like tS but I prefer a new car and to me the BRZ is just a bit more playful not as serious.

I did go against my initial instinct. What I mean that I thought the BRZ was an inexpensive car and that the tS kind of was the wrong way to do a BRZ (meaning more cost kind of defeats the cheap car aspect) but then the tS (IMO) looks so nice and feels special. I'm sure the PP (brakes) and you add the tires for $800 and you are 95% to the tS. but the intangibles (meaning looks just was enough for me to spend $$ over the Limited with PP). However if I was tight on a budget then I would certainly get the Limited with PP without thinking twice.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

Quite the BRZ (see test I posted) 0-60 6.2s
Skyline (from my search) 0-60 5.4s

that's quicker but it's not like you're saying the Skyline is a 4 second car.

Plus (this is the truth) Doug probably didn't want to wind up the Skyline and launch it.

Plus any given Sunday and what not the BRZ could sometimes get close.

All these tests take the best times so they may have several slower so then a slower Skyline launch may meet a quick BRZ launch.

But we'll never know because Doug isn't selling that narrative he's selling the BRZ is slow.

Yeah, pretty sure to get a gtr to perform like a brz it would be missing a spark plug or something. They're not close in real world performance. The narrative he is "selling" is tongue in cheek, but also accurate.