RR Racing Brake Development -- Competition and Street

[Irace86.2.0]

I have this kit, the stage II and performance rears with bp20's. I get bad squeal when light braking at low speeds. If I quickly stab the brakes to stop there is great bite and response, but mashing the brakes sometimes leads to less than expected performance. Sometimes I can press hard enough to get the pedal to bottom out.

I have bled the brakes enough to know there are no leaks and not a drop of air in the lines, but the pedal feels like it is spongy. I feel like the stock brakes were better. I even remember how tight it felt after installing a master cylinder brace, and now the kit and master cylinder brace feels spongier or softer than stock. It is odd. Either air is trapped somewhere that doesn't get worked to the end of the brake lines or the pads are squishy compared to OEM organic pads. I dunno. I really haven't had an opportunity to take it to the track or do an autocross day. I have done very spirited driving in the canyons and the brakes handle the heat well, but I would like firmer brake pedal feel and better response.

I'll probably try some other shims and the EBC red stuff or maybe even some basic organic pads.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I have this kit, the stage II and performance rears with bp20's. I get bad squeal when light braking at low speeds. If I quickly stab the brakes to stop there is great bite and response, but mashing the brakes sometimes leads to less than expected performance. Sometimes I can press hard enough to get the pedal to bottom out.

I have bled the brakes enough to know there are no leaks and not a drop of air in the lines, but the pedal feels like it is spongy. I feel like the stock brakes were better. I even remember how tight it felt after installing a master cylinder brace, and now the kit and master cylinder brace feels spongier or softer than stock. It is odd. Either air is trapped somewhere that doesn't get worked to the end of the brake lines or the pads are squishy compared to OEM organic pads. I dunno. I really haven't had an opportunity to take it to the track or do an autocross day. I have done very spirited driving in the canyons and the brakes handle the heat well, but I would like firmer brake pedal feel and better response.

I'll probably try some other shims and the EBC red stuff or maybe even some basic organic pads.

Did you make sure to bed the pads in well? I put in a new set of BP20's and changed out my brake fluid before my last track day. I remember thinking the pedal felt oddly soft on the street. But after I bedded in the brake pads in the first session, everything was normal again. I can't explain it but something about bedding in the pads firmed up the pedal feel.

That said, I remember OEM brakes + fresh fluid + aftermarket pads (XP10, HC+800, etc.) having really firm pedal feel. Better than the Stage 2 RR kit actually.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Did you make sure to bed the pads in well? I put in a new set of BP20's and changed out my brake fluid before my last track day. I remember thinking the pedal felt oddly soft on the street. But after I bedded in the brake pads in the first session, everything was normal again. I can't explain it but something about bedding in the pads firmed up the pedal feel.

That said, I remember OEM brakes + fresh fluid + aftermarket pads (XP10, HC+800, etc.) having really firm pedal feel. Better than the Stage 2 RR kit actually.

I did a bed in procedure. Who knows if I did it well enough. I’ve had the kit on for like 5l miles though so I figure they should be good.

[ryoma]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I did a bed in procedure. Who knows if I did it well enough. I’ve had the kit on for like 5l miles though so I figure they should be good.

I have the stage 2 front and stage 4 rears with BP20's; no issues at all with brake pedal feel. it's actually extremely responsive compared to stock. a light tap of the pedal and they bite. they squeal pretty bad when warmed up and coming to a stop though, but that's expected.

tbh, the symptoms sound like you still have air in the lines.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ryoma

I have the stage 2 front and stage 4 rears with BP20's; no issues at all with brake pedal feel. it's actually extremely responsive compared to stock. a light tap of the pedal and they bite. they squeal pretty bad when warmed up and coming to a stop though, but that's expected.

tbh, the symptoms sound like you still have air in the lines.

The brakes work really well at speed under heavy braking or if I stab them. They work at other times but are worse than stock. I do believe there may be air in the line but we bled the brakes with no air in the system.

Is there a way for professionals to run the ABS open to purge it? Do bubbles circulate or do they work to the end of the caliper? Do I have to keep purging even if there are no bubbles or will bubbles be sitting at the end?

[ryoma]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The brakes work really well at speed under heavy braking or if I stab them. They work at other times but are worse than stock. I do believe there may be air in the line but we bled the brakes with no air in the system.

Is there a way for professionals to run the ABS open to purge it? Do bubbles circulate or do they work to the end of the caliper? Do I have to keep purging even if there are no bubbles or will bubbles be sitting at the end?

I believe there is an option in Techstream to cycle the ABS pumps, but maybe you just need to bleed it more. I personally used a pressure bleeder (motive bleeder) and went around the car two or three times. make sure the calipers are being bled from the outer valve first, then the inner though (not sure if the sport rears have two valves or 1). and obviously work in the same manner as you would normally (passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front). I know that's all basic information but sometimes you probably just need to bleed it more than once.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ryoma

I believe there is an option in Techstream to cycle the ABS pumps, but maybe you just need to bleed it more. I personally used a pressure bleeder (motive bleeder) and went around the car two or three times. make sure the calipers are being bled from the outer valve first, then the inner though (not sure if the sport rears have two valves or 1). and obviously work in the same manner as you would normally (passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front). I know that's all basic information but sometimes you probably just need to bleed it more than once.

I might get the motive bleeder. Do you know of anyone who sells check valves to replace the bleeder nipples? I might get those too.

We did two rounds of bleeding until no bubbles, making sure to get both valves on each caliper then a few months later did the same.

[Irace86.2.0]

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...emno=120-13237

I believe these are the stage ii calipers that I have. They say they take bleed screw type 220-0627

http://www.wilwood.com/LineKits/Line...temno=220-0627

These are the bleeder screws. 1/4-28

http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/639540/10002/-1

These are the Russell speed bleeders--639540--which is what is listed on Russell's website.

http://www.russellperformance.com/mc...ermarket.shtml

I'll probably get these bleeders then get the Motive self brake bleeder kit here:

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produc.../dp/B00CJ5DZE2

Anyone know if there is a way to run the ABS wide open?

[fika84]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...emno=120-13237

I believe these are the stage ii calipers that I have. They say they take bleed screw type 220-0627

http://www.wilwood.com/LineKits/Line...temno=220-0627

These are the bleeder screws. 1/4-28

http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/639540/10002/-1

These are the Russell speed bleeders--639540--which is what is listed on Russell's website.

http://www.russellperformance.com/mc...ermarket.shtml

I'll probably get these bleeders then get the Motive self brake bleeder kit here:

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produc.../dp/B00CJ5DZE2

Anyone know if there is a way to run the ABS wide open?

Sounds like you definitely have air in the lines. Spongy and feel worse than stock. It sounds like mine felt after the first bleed. After the second bleed they feel much much better. Just gotta be patient and make sure you're bleeding them in the right order. Here is Wilwood's info on it - https://www.wilwood.com/m/techtip/Te...spx?id=10&no=1

Bleed em again! You'll love them once they're setup right.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by fika84

Sounds like you definitely have air in the lines. Spongy and feel worse than stock. It sounds like mine felt after the first bleed. After the second bleed they feel much much better. Just gotta be patient and make sure you're bleeding them in the right order. Here is Wilwood's info on it - https://www.wilwood.com/m/techtip/Te...spx?id=10&no=1

Bleed em again! You'll love them once they're setup right.

I ordered the speed bleeders and power bleeder kit along with shims. Like I said, we did two rounds of bleeding like you are suppose to until no air came out. After a few months of driving, trying to activate the ABS to see if air was trapped, we repeated the process and the smallest in size and amount of bubbles came out. I can't imagine there is much air in the system, but there might be a little. It stops well, especially at high speeds, but it lacks the firmness of OEM, so I think there must be some small amount of air somewhere. Hopefully this will fix things.

[fika84]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I ordered the speed bleeders and power bleeder kit along with shims. Like I said, we did two rounds of bleeding like you are suppose to until no air came out. After a few months of driving, trying to activate the ABS to see if air was trapped, we repeated the process and the smallest in size and amount of bubbles came out. I can't imagine there is much air in the system, but there might be a little. It stops well, especially at high speeds, but it lacks the firmness of OEM, so I think there must be some small amount of air somewhere. Hopefully this will fix things.

Keep us posted! I was looking into getting the speed bleeders since it's such a PITA to bleed calipers on both sides!

[Pointmutation]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I ordered the speed bleeders and power bleeder kit along with shims. Like I said, we did two rounds of bleeding like you are suppose to until no air came out. After a few months of driving, trying to activate the ABS to see if air was trapped, we repeated the process and the smallest in size and amount of bubbles came out. I can't imagine there is much air in the system, but there might be a little. It stops well, especially at high speeds, but it lacks the firmness of OEM, so I think there must be some small amount of air somewhere. Hopefully this will fix things.

Yeah, keep us posted. I’ve had the front and rears installed for a few weeks now (Stg 1 fronts, SP rears, and BP10’s). Your description of the pedal sounds exactly like I would describe mine. Brakes work well when stabbed or hard braking at speed but just not as firm as stock. I added an MC brace too after the bbk install after I noticed this, which helped some, but still not as firm as stock. But I’ve had no time yet to bleed the system since the first day installed.

Last week I just bought the motive power bleeder too. I debated on buying speed bleeders also but I figure with the power bleeder, I wouldn’t need speed bleeders.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by fika84

Keep us posted! I was looking into getting the speed bleeders since it's such a PITA to bleed calipers on both sides!

Originally Posted by Pointmutation

Yeah, keep us posted. I’ve had the front and rears installed for a few weeks now (Stg 1 fronts, SP rears, and BP10’s). Your description of the pedal sounds exactly like I would describe mine. Brakes work well when stabbed or hard braking at speed but just not as firm as stock. I added an MC brace too after the bbk install after I noticed this, which helped some, but still not as firm as stock. But I’ve had no time yet to bleed the system since the first day installed.

Last week I just bought the motive power bleeder too. I debated on buying speed bleeders also but I figure with the power bleeder, I wouldn’t need speed bleeders.

I’ll keep you guys updated. Like I said, I bought a master cylinder brace and felt improvement over stock like it was rock solid then going from that to the BBK was squishy even after multiple bleeds. Hopefully this works. I plan to double check my lines and to purge bottles worth of fluid.

[B T]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Anyone know if there is a way to run the ABS wide open?

Not sure what you by mean wide open, but I use a Beastronix module to disengage ABS on my track days.