Best intake option in 2017?

[Detroiter]

Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed

I answered Timmy's PM this morning before I saw this thread, so I figured I'll post exactly what I sent to him right here for everyone to see. He said to me that the Injen and GrimmSpeed intakes look the same to him, and wanted to know what made the GrimmSpeed intake better:

"Hey Timmy,

It's good to see you are doing your research instead of just blindly buying something. The differences between our intake and Injens are substantial over just the difference in filter.

1. An oiled filter is less restrictive than a dry filter, and less restriction is better for making power. That is why we offer our intakes standard with oiled filters, but we do have a dry filter for sale separately that fits on our website if it ends up being a deal breaker.

2. The differences in the airbox designs are substantial. Injen took a lazy approach and just made the open face of the airbox face the front of the car. Super easy to fit and design, but not good for intaking cold air, especially with its proximity to the radiator. Ours seals to the factory snorkel, which gives a much better supply of cool air. If you go through our development thread i believe we showed where we didnt attach the snorkel to our intake, and actually lost power. I feel that this is the largest flaw with Injen's airbox.

3. The tube routing. The injen intake uses the stock intake tube route which requires a longer tube and a 90 degree bend angle. More angle and more tube length = more restriction. Our intake uses literally the minimum length and bend angle necessary which allows for the least amount of restriction.

4. The MOST important is the large difference in MAF placement and how they tune. The Injen MAF placement is not great. Since the MAF is placed AFTER the 90 degree bend and the reduction in tube diameter, Injen relies on a development where they weld in another smaller tube into the intake tube near the MAF to try and trick the MAF into reading properly. This strategy kind of works, but really doesn't, which requires this intake to be tuned to have the MAF scaled more often than not. Our intake was designed so carefully with everything from MAF tube diameter, to location, clocking, depth, and even has the same factory design air straightener. This is why our intake is regarded so highly, because it follows the OEM MAF curve, and is only off by about 4%. A difference so low that it doesnt require a MAF rescale at all, and has never thrown a CEL.

I would suggest you dig a little deeper on the Injen intake, because there have been TONS of instances of the MAF reading so poorly that the car throws a CEL. On this forum I've read more reviews about the Injen intake that were negative, than that were positive, but I've been on this forum for 4 years now too.

Hopefully this gives you some stuff to look into, and helps out in your search!

Chase
Engineering"



The cheat test eh? I could go on and on about the fact that we're the only manufacturer to show as much development, or the only manufacturer to show the testing on the stock intake, or to provide dynos of stock intake, inlet tube, drop in filter, other intakes, and OFT tuned intakes. But that dead horse has already been beaten.

BUT, I jumped into the way back machine here because I knew for a fact that we posted a dyno run of the stock intake with OFT tune, vs our intake untuned, and with the same OFT tune. You might even recognize the name of the guy asking the question:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=33

So I think we actually passed your cheat test. Twice now

Chase
Engineering

In an attempt to hold myself off from getting addicted to the boost, I am currently building my car to squeeze the most power out of NA as I can without going to the extreme.

I plan on in the next month having a full header back performance exhaust, running E85 on the OFT UEL stage 2 E85 tune, and potentially lightweight wheels to make the most of the power. Is there any testing you guys have done with any difference your intake will make on a setup like this?

[GrimmSpeed]

Originally Posted by guybo

Yeah that's what I take it to mean too. From what I read that distance from the MAF to the TB can make a difference that is noticeable in that time. Maybe not. Maybe I'm feeling something different but especially on the highway I notice a difference between my old set up with the silicone inlet and K&N drop in and the Injen SP I have now.

Well, as far as MAF to throttle body distance making a difference goes: If you think about it the source of vacuum is coming almost exclusively from the cylinder. And the sum of the vacuum pulses from the cylinders start in the intake manifold, and they draw through the throttle body, through the intake, through the filter, through the everything else. If there were zero losses from pressure drop (runs of pipe, bends, transitions and friction) there would be no difference in vacuum at the throttle body as there is at the end of the intake tube.

Assuming these pressure losses are small (they're pretty small, I haven an entire article on here outlining them from start to finish), and ignoring the effects from air being compressible (those are super small), the difference in velocity and temperature at the beginning of the intake tube, and at the throttle body is going to be pretty much the same, especially on an appreciably short intake tube.

So assuming that having the MAF closer to the throttle body means the amount of air that is sensed is somehow more accurate to what is about to go through the throttle body, or that you could sense the time change really doesn't have any merit. And the non-existent benefit is easily outweighed by some of the negative effects that having the sensor that close to the throttle body can sometimes show.

But I have no doubt what you're feeling as a difference is actually a difference. What you perceive might be a gain or a loss in an area that you usually drive in, or a general (albeit small) reshaping of the power curve. Our it could have something to do with the funky MAF curve of that particular intake. As much as people really like to put down intakes here and say they do absolutely nothing (despite all of the testing shown that shows otherwise, and no testing that shows the opposite) a well designed intake like ours is increasing your power output to the ground by 6%. That's significant enough to feel for most people.

My favorite argument is the "don't buy an intake, just buy a drop in filter. You get half the gains for a sixth of the cost." And then people will go out and buy an exhaust that gives them half the gains of an intake at 3 times the cost

Originally Posted by Detroiter

In an attempt to hold myself off from getting addicted to the boost, I am currently building my car to squeeze the most power out of NA as I can without going to the extreme.

I plan on in the next month having a full header back performance exhaust, running E85 on the OFT UEL stage 2 E85 tune, and potentially lightweight wheels to make the most of the power. Is there any testing you guys have done with any difference your intake will make on a setup like this?

That's a good plan, which should make it into a nearly 200whp screamer. I don't have any specific testing for you, but know there are a ton of people running around with our intake and e85. I can't give you a specific horsepower figure, but having an intake is never going to be a bad idea, because any time you decrease restriction before the cylinder you will decrease losses, which will increase power.

The most erroneous argument I see about intakes is: "If you can flow more air in, but can't flow more air out, the intake isn't going to work."

Intakes don't flow more air in. The engine isn't all of the sudden positive displacement because an intake was added. But when you decrease restriction, you will decrease pumping losses, friction, etc, and the engine doesn't have to work as hard to inhale, which makes it more efficient.

So you might have to do a little more digging, but you can not go wrong with any sort of decrease in restriction when you're going for power production, and every little bit counts.

Chase
Engineering

[guybo]

Chase, you need your own Q&A sticky thread. I'm not even kidding. I'd love if you had a dedicated intake Q&A thread. This is good stuff TY!

[Detroiter]

Originally Posted by guybo

Chase, you need your own Q&A sticky thread. I'm not even kidding. I'd love if you had a dedicated intake Q&A thread. This is good stuff TY!

I second this

[Yardjass]

This is why I buy Grimmspeed stuff. As an engineer myself, I like to buy products from people that actually put the time and effort in to do this sort of development rather than just throwing something together that fits and calling it good. TBH, I'm also a little jealous you guys actually get to use what you learned in school and I like getting to live vicariously through those who document that sort of stuff online. I guess what I'm saying is keep "showing your work". We all enjoy it.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by guybo

Maybe I'm feeling something different but especially on the highway I notice a difference between my old set up with the silicone inlet and K&N drop in and the Injen SP I have now.

Apples to oranges. The change in filter/type of intake will of course change the airflow through the intake, having a large cone filter may well aid velocity and therefore give you the "response" change. If you could move the MAF sensor around the OEM intake, as such the readings aren't thrown off too much by turbulence or bends, there would be no perceived change in power or response no matter what the placement.

[Bimble Bamble]

D Sport Magazine did 300+ dyno runs and proved there are gains with a tune. Some appear almost worth the gains for the money and can focus in on the mid range torque. Does anyone know how the intakes dsport tested compare to the Perrin long tube?

http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/scion-...ing-ecutek/10/

[meadowz06]

There is no gain in doing an intake. It has been proven ad nauseum.

[Somerandom18]

Sucks that the Grimmspeed intake isn't on that graph..

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[ajh88]

I've got the Blitz and can say it sounds amazing on WOT.

[Aluma007]

Looking to upgrade intake filter with the HKS super hybrid filter and maybe a intake tube. Not sure about the sound tube deletes since they dont seem to be reinforced by wire and those videos of the intake pipe collapsing under load are surprising...so, Is there any difference between the AVO intake tube (silicone reinforced with wire with a silicone sound tube too) and blitz/cusco/hks intake tube(all looks the to be the same aluminum pipe with couplers just different price)? HP, sound, anything? any pros or cons vs the grimmspeed or perrin CAI?

[Varelco]

Ok so I thought I’d add my experiences on intake for this platform.

Bought my car new back in 2015, fitted a Cosworth panel filter and silicone intake hose after a couple of thousand miles, slight increase in induction note and the car felt like it had a little bit more poke. Within a couple of months I got used to it and completely forgot about it (happens with small gains). I ran this setup until mid 2017 then fitted a Grimmspeed intake. A lovely bit of kit, and looked great once fitted. The car ran as smooth as it did before, proving the engineering design was sound. I noticed no difference at all in terms of power or response. I primarily wanted it for the extra induction noise anyway so wasn’t too concerned but you could barely hear it. A little bark at 4k then the sound will fade away. I imagine if i ditched the stock snorkel i would of got a bit more noise. Intake temperatures were noticeable higher than the stock setup according to torque pro, it would soak heat quicker for longer. Sold it after 2k miles.

So yeah what everybody says is true, fit a panel filter and intake hose and be done with it.

[tennisfreak]

Best option? Stock

Use the money elsewhere.

[Somerandom18]

If you really want an intake go Grimmspeed.

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