Suspension Hell Hole

[Thueniken]

So I'm new to the car scene. Like really new. I bought my 2013 BRZ about 1 and a half years ago when I was 14. One of the things I always wanted to do was dial in the suspension (Not saying the stock suspension isn't awesome!) So like anyone else would do, I started researching...There is a lot more than I thought.

The first thing that came to my mind was to get coilovers. I started looking around on FT86SF and found these: https://goo.gl/uS8k7F
The "setup" I'm looking for is a track/daily config and one of the parts I'm confused is the spring rates. Does that control the stiffness? Does it control how far the wheel travels? Would higher rates be better?
After trying to wrap my head around coilovers, I started looking at everything else. So a little more research later and I found out that once you lower your car, the suspension geometry can get out of wack. (doesn't sound good, don't want it) so I found lower control arms for the front.
https://goo.gl/W4kL8g
With these, it promises to "maintain correct suspension geometry on a lowered vehicle." Would these be something worth looking into?
After a while of this I realized that I'm in a suspension sink hole..
So at this point I'm just going tab by tab and looking at all the aftermarket suspension components.
First tab, Bushings. Would I need after market pillow ball bushings if I plan on getting mostly after market components? Are these necessary for their cost to buy? Do they even add any performance to the car?
Second tab, Camber/Caster/Toe. I know I need lower control arms in the rear for camber. and I know I don't need camber plates/strut mounts because they come with the coilovers. But would I need adjustable toe arms if I lower the car or get any of the other suspension components? Would adjustable tie rod ends be something I need to buy to keep "correct suspension geometry"
Third tab, End Links. What are they? What do they do? Do I need them?
Forth tab, Sway bars. I read a form about sway bars and is it true that you only really get a bigger size if you have suspension done to your car, and even then you only get like 1 size bigger than stock?

Thank you to anyone that could be bothered to even reed this. Any help at all would really be appreciated!

[churchx]

1. what tires you'll be using?
2. what you prioritize more, daily driving compliance or track performance?
3. budget?

Answer to 1st question is the biggie that dictates most of choices in suspension.

[Gunman]

Use caution, in that the more adjust-ability you have to "dial in" the suspension, there is even more potential to dial it way out of wack

[Horrid_Funk]

My man, I wouldn't be worrying about these things. The stock suspension is fine as it is, get some time learning to drive on the road and then on the track once you're old enough. The benefit you're going to see of spending a ton of money on the suspension is practically nothing if you're just driving on the street, besides comfort if you get soft street coilovers. It is good to learn about stuff though, and it's cool you're in here asking questions. A lot of this information is out there and easily accessible.

Go ahead and read these: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9936
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8739
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45554

Spring rates are how stiff the springs are. So they're in a unit of force/length. So higher spring rates mean they push back harder per unit of length they're compressed. So yes, it controls the stiffness, it can control how far the wheel travels in addition to damping (It's a control system, which involves some fun engineering math). Higher rates can be better but it's entirely dependent on the surface of the road you're driving on, the tire compound you're using, and the damping that's being used.

You don't need LCAs for the front. It's a MacPherson strut, so the camber of the front shouldn't change based on the ride height. You do need rear LCAs as the rear suspension is a double wishbone, so the rear camber will change as you lower it. You will absolutely need an alignment to get everything lined up as well. There's a lot of debate on what alignment specs you'll want, lot of information out there.

Everything else you're asking about is pretty much unnecessary as far as I'm aware, but the nuances escape me for the most part as I'm not super interested in getting that deep in suspension mods. Go ahead and do some more research

If you really want to do suspension, look up some reviews on this forum. Easiest way to do that is by googling "site:ft86club.com X coilover review". That's also the best way to search for any info on this forum. Good luck!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Let's slow down.

The most important thing when it comes to getting your to go around a corner is the tire. This (along with how you plan to use the car) is what you should base your suspension build around.

So...you choose a tire that suits your needs. If it's a Hoosier slick, you're going to want a different suspension than you would if you've got the OEM tires, or winter tires, or even a good summer sport tire. The ideal alignment will be different, bushing choice may be different, you may or may want to add larger (or smaller) swaybars, etc. There is no one set-up that does everything perfectly.

For a fun daily driver, occasional track and autocross car in Florida...a good summer performance tire will do the trick. You won't have as much ultimate grip as an extreme performance summer tire or an r-compound track tire, but the tires will be quieter, ride smoother, and be easier to drive. Still plenty of grip.

Before you go any farther I would recommend a thorough inspection of what you have on your car now. Your car is 5 years old. Are the shocks busted? Are the bushings worn? Is it time for new brake pads? Wheel bearings okay? Make sure your starting from a good place, or at least have a list of things you need to replace.

From here, there are a couple things to keep in mind...too many to go over right now because it's lunch time. It's easy to go overboard and there are fancy shiny parts that may not make things better for you. I think I need to work on another suspension 101 post.

- Andrew

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Horrid_Funk

My man, I wouldn't be worrying about these things. The stock suspension is fine as it is, get some time learning to drive on the road and then on the track once you're old enough. ...........

........and there ya have it .......


humfrz

[Thueniken]

Originally Posted by churchx

1. what tires you'll be using?
2. what you prioritize more, daily driving compliance or track performance?
3. budget?

Answer to 1st question is the biggie that dictates most of choices in suspension.

1. 255 r18 Toyo r1r. I live in Florida so all terrain/ winter tires are not really needed
2. This car is my daily but school to work to home is all highway. So stiffer suspension would not be that uncomfortable.
3. About 5k to 7k. Wouldnt mind spending more though.

[wparsons]

IMO, stay with stock stuff until you know what you're specifically trying to address. Learn to drive the car at the limit (auto x or track, not on the road) and figure out what you want to change. If you just throw stuff at the car for the sake of buying parts, you'll likely end up liking it less than stock.

[Vital]

I think you just need some springs and shock/struts

[churchx]

Also imho chosen tires are a bit overkill. Will both make learning more difficult, as grip will be lost at much higher speeds, thus mistakes may cost more, and also if it's track performance that matters, not autox, then better go with tire size eg. of 225 width. Too wide may worsen acceleration, at least with stock NA power.

[HKz]

if you're a noob don't bother, you still need many, many more miles on your biological odo...no one is born having schumacher's driving skillz

[strat61caster]

I started messing with this stuff on little racecars when I was your age, went and got a degree in mechanical engineering because I loved the tinkering so much. I went with a custom coilover setup because I didn't like anything off the shelf. I screwed up my cars suspension for two years trying to set it up myself, I finally got it back into good shape about six weeks ago, I was pretty miserable for a good chunk of those two years, just plain not having fun. I learned a ton, but that was two years of hardship that could have been spent on driving a simpler setup and learning smaller lessons keeping a smile on my face. Why listen to this sob story? I'm over ten years past where you are now, this stuff isn't easy, it takes a lot of work.

Start small, go with what's known to work, spend more time driving hard than working on the car. I'd suggest going to local autocrosses and looking at building an SSC car, get as much seattime as possible and have a fast driver drive your car with you as a passenger.

The SSC package will allow you too play with dampers and sway bars and alignment and tire pressures, you'll be surprised how much of a difference all of that can make to how a car handles. You can stage your development to really feel how changes affect the car, start stock, then do alignment, then the tires, then get the SSC dampers which are adjustable and on and on and you can hopefully have local competition to help you gauge of you're getting better as well as local advice.

https://www.scca.com/articles/200829...ec-coupe-class

https://www.scca.com/articles/200895...tire-announced

Even if autox doesn't turn out to be your favorite cup of tea this should be a good setup to begin your modification journey. Alternatively you could get into go-karts or some other kind of racing to educate yourself on what it's all about, leave the street car as a casual car for some casual fun, there's a lot of merit to that when you have access to a car as solid as an 86.

You're already starting in the right place, tons of research and asking questions. Ross Bentley and Carroll Smith have a small library of material that's been used for decades, I like this one too:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets1.html

Take everything with a grain of salt and what works for some may not work for you.

[Racecomp Engineering]

SSC is a pretty good idea.

I would very much recommend going to an auto-x on a (well-maintained) stock car before doing anything. Figure out what you want to improve before throwing shiny parts on the car.

- Andrew

[strat61caster]

Also: don't do anything dumb on public roads, there is zero reason to slide around where other people are at risk. People die when drivers make poor decisions, you have a 3,000 lb missile in your hands every time you turn the key.