(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info... - Page 28 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

gravitylover · 02-27-2020, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

Pretty big blanketed statement considering the Corolla(best selling vehicle of all time),Camry,and Tacoma/Tundra. Not sure anyone would say any of those vehicles suck.

Well here ya go - Those vehicles suck. Have you driven them? Yuck. Yup they sell the shit out of them and for 99% of the people that buy vehicles like those don't care that they suck to drive because they don't like to drive so anything is sufficient as long as it gets them there.

Broseph · 02-27-2020, 11:50 PM

Agreed on the Toyota appliance thing. That’s why I don’t own one. They all drive boring as hell. Appliances. All of ‘em.

Tcoat · 02-28-2020, 10:14 AM

Without all those appliance vehicles that nobody here will drive there would not be the ones that we would. Simple economics not a reason to condemn the car companies.

venturaII · 02-28-2020, 10:23 AM

I dunno...I test drove a 1st gen Yaris before I started looking at the 86 platform, and I rather liked it. It felt and performed a lot like an A1 GTi...their stats were almost the same. Certainly an appliance car in today's world of minivans with sub 7 second 0-60 times, but still entertaining from more of a minimalist point of view...

Dave-ROR · 02-28-2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

Pretty big blanketed statement considering the Corolla(best selling vehicle of all time),Camry,and Tacoma/Tundra. Not sure anyone would say any of those vehicles suck.

I mean.. the Tacoma does pretty much rank last in all recent midsize truck comparisons that I've seen, if the magazine even bothers to include it at all. It was a good truck when it came out.. but they are so far behind the times it's just sad.

And I accounted for the appliances as @Tcoat pointed out.

Dave-ROR · 02-28-2020, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

I'm not sure I'd agree with this.
Yes, Toyota from the 90s through till about the mid-aughts was a bland, soulless company of beancounters making cars, but it's hard to ignore the change in tone since Akio Toyoda took over.

Despite the financial crisis, and the move towards SUVs etc., Toyota still launched a few sports cars (LFA, LC, RC, 86, Supra) while also bringing more driver-oriented flavour to their regular models (seen a few positive reviews of the new Corolla, and even the CH-R from reviewers generally not too positive of Toyota). Even though some of these new sports cars required partnerships with other manufacturers, the fact that they got made at all (in a market that seems destined for domination by CUVs/SUVs, with low-volume niche products like sports cars seen as money-losing propositions) is a signal to me.

On the flip side, I feel like Subaru has lost a lot of its charm and identity (I feel like the bugeye WRX was the last time they really did something noteworthy) - the Forester, Outback, etc. are going more and more mainstream, and struggle to standout from the pack (not that I blame them for this - business is business).

I wasn't really defending Subaru either. I wouldn't waste my money on a new Toyota or Subaru. I have zero interest in either, outside of their older cars and rebuilding wrecked ones anyways.

Tcoat · 02-28-2020, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I wasn't really defending Subaru either. I wouldn't waste my money on a new Toyota or Subaru. I have zero interest in either, outside of their older cars and rebuilding wrecked ones anyways.

Toyota has always been mainstream as far as econoboxes go so nothing new there. Subaru did have their quirky offbeat period that catered to a small sub group of buyers but they would never survive today's market if they kept that up. When it comes to the appliance vehicles that make up the vast majority of sales they both do an outstanding job really. The Subies may no longer have the oddball factor in their lineup but they still make an outstanding vehicle for their prices.

Dave-ROR · 02-28-2020, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Toyota has always been mainstream as far as econoboxes go so nothing new there. Subaru did have their quirky offbeat period that catered to a small sub group of buyers but they would never survive today's market if they kept that up. When it comes to the appliance vehicles that make up the vast majority of sales they both do an outstanding job really. The Subies may no longer have the oddball factor in their lineup but they still make an outstanding vehicle for their prices.

I'd agree with that. Subaru's quality hasn't risen with their mainstream sales unfortunately.. growing pains I guess.

Tcoat · 02-28-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd agree with that. Subaru's quality hasn't risen with their mainstream sales unfortunately.. growing pains I guess.

They have really upped their game in the last 3 model years. It is just not with vehicles that people on forums like this give a rat's ass about. My wife has had a 2017 Impreza and now a 2018 Outback and quality of materials, design and overall fit and finish of both were so far away from the older versions that it was like they were a whole different company.

Dave-ROR · 02-28-2020, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They have really upped their game in the last 3 model years. It is just not with vehicles that people on forums like this give a rat's ass about. My wife has had a 2017 Impreza and now a 2018 Outback and quality of materials, design and overall fit and finish of both were so far away from the older versions that it was like they were a whole different company.

The Ascent on the other hand is terrible, at least it has been. Wanted my sister to get one until Opie said to stay away and shared some of the shit that has come in for warranty work.

Tcoat · 02-28-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The Ascent on the other hand is terrible, at least it has been. Wanted my sister to get one until Opie said to stay away and shared some of the shit that has come in for warranty work.

They do totally suck at their first model year bugs yes.

Dadhawk · 02-28-2020, 01:13 PM

All this talk makes me think...

Think what you want about GM, but aren't they pretty much the only major car company (meaning has a broad range of products) that has always had a commitment to producing something most folks would consider a sports car? Can't think of any other major manufacturer that has done that consistently.

nextcar · 02-28-2020, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

All this talk makes me think...

Think what you want about GM, but aren't they pretty much the only major car company (meaning has a broad range of products) that has always had a commitment to producing something most folks would consider a sports car? Can't think of any other major manufacturer that has done that consistently.

Always? The GM lineup prior to the Corvette never struck me as sporty...

Dadhawk · 02-28-2020, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nextcar

Always? The GM lineup prior to the Corvette never struck me as sporty...

OK, I stand corrected, lets say the last 50 years....

02-28-2020, 10:14 AM	#381
Tcoat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: 2020 Hakone Location: London, Ont Posts: 69,845 Thanks: 61,656 Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts Mentioned: 2495 Post(s) Tagged: 50 Thread(s)	Without all those appliance vehicles that nobody here will drive there would not be the ones that we would. Simple economics not a reason to condemn the car companies. __________________ Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.

02-28-2020, 10:23 AM	#382
venturaII Only users lose drugs. Join Date: Nov 2014 Drives: All the time Location: Shrewsbury upon Worcestershire Posts: 1,818 Thanks: 874 Thanked 1,067 Times in 674 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	I dunno...I test drove a 1st gen Yaris before I started looking at the 86 platform, and I rather liked it. It felt and performed a lot like an A1 GTi...their stats were almost the same. Certainly an appliance car in today's world of minivans with sub 7 second 0-60 times, but still entertaining from more of a minimalist point of view... __________________ "To know a thing well, know it's limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen." Amtal Rule

02-28-2020, 01:13 PM	#390
Dadhawk 1st86 Driver! Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86) Location: Powder Springs, GA Posts: 19,814 Thanks: 38,822 Thanked 24,939 Times in 11,376 Posts Mentioned: 182 Post(s) Tagged: 4 Thread(s)	All this talk makes me think... Think what you want about GM, but aren't they pretty much the only major car company (meaning has a broad range of products) that has always had a commitment to producing something most folks would consider a sports car? Can't think of any other major manufacturer that has done that consistently. __________________ Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".

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02-27-2020, 11:50 PM	#380
Broseph Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Drives: Subaru Location: CO Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Agreed on the Toyota appliance thing. That’s why I don’t own one. They all drive boring as hell. Appliances. All of ‘em.

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