FRS vs BMW e46 M3. Which to buy?

[arsen89]

Hey guys I'm new here and this would be my first thread. Did some research on this subject before posting and could not find anything on it. I find myself with this dilemma. e46 M3 or FRS? I plan on spending around 26,000 on the car. A good used e46 goes for about that price and well we all know the FRS pricing.

Ill be graduating in a year, with no pesky loans to pay back or worry about. Thank God . And I really wanted to switch out of my Prius (Ill probably get some heat for this) and sure while not the most performance oriented car, I gotta give her credit she has been great to me with gas when you are a college student on a budget.

Just wanted to see what fellow enthusiast think about these two cars. Granted this is an FRS forum and there might be a bit of bias, but I'm interested in your opinions, thanks for the input!

[SpeedR]

Don’t get a BMW without a warranty unless you have deep pockets
A brake job on my M Roadster was $4K.

[86'd]

Welcome.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3619

Personally, I love the E46 M3 but I wouldn't buy one 10 years old and out of warranty.

I'd only buy BMWs new, or if I had the time to fix them.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Assuming this will be your only car, go for the FR-S, unless you have a lot of money set aside for possible repairs and/or maintenance (both of which would be expensive) for the E46 M3, which at this point would be 5-10 years old, depending on the model year. It's nothing against BMW or perpetuating its stereotypes, but again, it's going to need stuff replaced at this point.

On the other hand, the FR-S will be far less likely to have issues (since it's brand new) aside from any first-year bugs (again since it's brand new), but maintenance is WAY easier. Remember that the FR-S will get the free scheduled maintenance for 2 years/25,000 miles like all Toyotas... it won't save a ton, but it's nice to have fewer things to worry about, especially when those same services would be far more expensive for the M3, since it will likely use eight quarts of synthetic oil. OEM replacements (or even just OEM-sized replacements) of wear-and-tear items like tires will also differ significantly, as even if you go up to OEM-sized rubber of a more performance-oriented tire (like Z1 Star Specs) would still be far less expensive per corner. And then there's that warranty thing. Plus the $1,000 college graduate rebate, which I assume you'd be eligible for since you mentioned you'd be wrapping up school soon.

But still, the M3 is a pretty sweet car, especially the E46.

[DarkSunrise]

The E46 M3 is going to be significantly more expensive in the long run. Maintenance, repairs, consumables, fuel, and probably insurance. It's also a larger and heavier car (10" longer, 3" taller, 650 lbs heavier).

That said, it's in a much higher performance category than the FR-S, and more refined.

Up to you which to buy after test-driving, but personally, instead of an E46 M3, I'd get a leftover no-option 2012 Mustang GT for about $26k.

[RearDrive]

So to sum it up, if your worried about extra costs of the vehicle and your not in the best financial situation go for the frs. If you have deep pockets and don't mind the expensive maintanance and repairs go for the m3. Because (even though I haven't driven either) they are both great drivers car but the m3 is on another level performance wise due to the extra power and still handles great.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Up to you which to buy after test-driving, but personally, instead of an E46 M3, I'd get a leftover no-option 2012 Mustang GT for about $26k.

The problem with that idea is that you'd basically have to haggle for getting $5-6k off (since the MSRP is more or less $30k, then you have to factor in the usual tax, title and licensing fees) on a car that is rare enough as it is (as it varies from region to region, but a lot of Mustangs that get shipped out usually have various packages on them) and may already be snatched up (as the optionless models of sports cars like the Mustang GT, M3, etc. are usually already hunted down by people who want that car but have budgeted only the bare minimum).

[arsen89]

Originally Posted by SpeedR

Don’t get a BMW without a warranty unless you have deep pockets
A brake job on my M Roadster was $4K.

Yeah that would be the main thing maintenance. But I have been saving up for the maintenance part since I finished paying off my Prius a year ago. WOW! 4K on a brake job, yeah on the other hand I did not think it would be quite that much but I dont mind getting my hands dirty.

Originally Posted by 86'd

Welcome.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3619

Personally, I love the E46 M3 but I wouldn't buy one 10 years old and out of warranty.

I'd only buy BMWs new, or if I had the time to fix them.

Thanks for the welcome!

It would be a ten year old car but I feel pretty confident on working on my own cars, a break job or even a subframe reinforcement are not too much of a concern to me, but parts would def be the big one for me.

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Assuming this will be your only car, go for the FR-S, unless you have a lot of money set aside for possible repairs and/or maintenance (both of which would be expensive) for the E46 M3, which at this point would be 5-10 years old, depending on the model year. It's nothing against BMW or perpetuating its stereotypes, but again, it's going to need stuff replaced at this point.

On the other hand, the FR-S will be far less likely to have issues (since it's brand new) aside from any first-year bugs (again since it's brand new), but maintenance is WAY easier. Remember that the FR-S will get the free scheduled maintenance for 2 years/25,000 miles like all Toyotas... it won't save a ton, but it's nice to have fewer things to worry about, especially when those same services would be far more expensive for the M3, since it will likely use eight quarts of synthetic oil. OEM replacements (or even just OEM-sized replacements) of wear-and-tear items like tires will also differ significantly, as even if you go up to OEM-sized rubber of a more performance-oriented tire (like Z1 Star Specs) would still be far less expensive per corner. And then there's that warranty thing. Plus the $1,000 college graduate rebate, which I assume you'd be eligible for since you mentioned you'd be wrapping up school soon.

But still, the M3 is a pretty sweet car, especially the E46.

Thanks for the detailed response. Yeah the main thing that is attracting me to the FRS is the maintenance and parts budget. The two year toyota care is nice, but i do most of my oil changes anyways. I have also heard that boxer engines on subarus are not the most reliable though and gas mileage is not great on them. Then again I heard this from friends that have the turbo engines on STIs so yeah its too early to judge the FRS on that.

I think thats what it is, the e46 is a sweet ride and I have always loved the e46. Ever since I saw one in middle school in a parking lot. But then again I do want to make an educated decision and not just buy on feelings and impulse.


Thanks for the input guys! I think my main concern with the M3 is the cost of parts and tires, etc. And while the FRS is a great car, IMO its just doesnt have the extra power and feel that an M3 has, although it is still a great car. Guess I would have to test drive one. Heard lot of people are falling for the FRS after the first test drive.

[Capt Canuck]

Post similar on a BMW forum and see what current owners say.

While there is a good deal of truth to running cost differences, according to this forum EVERYTHING has higher running costs than a FRS/BRZ. It runs on rain water, uses discarded orange peels for tyres, and eraser heads for brakes, so it is hard to beat that

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

The problem with that idea is that you'd basically have to haggle for getting $5-6k off (since the MSRP is more or less $30k, then you have to factor in the usual tax, title and licensing fees) on a car that is rare enough as it is (as it varies from region to region, but a lot of Mustangs that get shipped out usually have various packages on them) and may already be snatched up (as the optionless models of sports cars like the Mustang GT, M3, etc. are usually already hunted down by people who want that car but have budgeted only the bare minimum).

Mustangs typically get discounted a fair amount off MSRP after manufacturers' rebates, negotiation, etc. It's not unusual to see them go for $4-5000 off MSRP. About 3 weeks ago, a local dealer was advertising a black 2012 Mustang GT with brembo pack for ~$27,300 after Ford rebate (about $5000 off MSRP). With negotiation, you could prob get that car in the $26,xxx range.

It looks like Ford's manufacturer rebate ended, but you could probably still buy a no-options 2012 Mustang GT in the $26-27k range. It's YMMV, but certainly worth a shot in my opinion.

[arsen89]

And I do plan to keep my Prius if I buy the M3, but that could change. Having two cars for a recent college grad is not necessarily the best of plans. Although if I do buy the FRS I think I would be more inclined to get rid of my Prius.

[arsen89]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The E46 M3 is going to be significantly more expensive in the long run. Maintenance, repairs, consumables, fuel, and probably insurance. It's also a larger and heavier car (10" longer, 3" taller, 650 lbs heavier).

That said, it's in a much higher performance category than the FR-S, and more refined.

Up to you which to buy after test-driving, but personally, instead of an E46 M3, I'd get a leftover no-option 2012 Mustang GT for about $26k.

The mustang sounds good but personally I'm not a big fan of mustangs and they are not really my taste. Nothing against them, but I would much rather have an M3 or FRS. And true the M3 is much more refined and is made with better materials. As far as quality though, I believe both of these cars are made by manufacturers that value it.

[arsen89]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Post similar on a BMW forum and see what current owners say.

While there is a good deal of truth to running cost differences, according to this forum EVERYTHING has higher running costs than a FRS/BRZ. It runs on rain water, uses discarded orange peels for tyres, and eraser heads for brakes, so it is hard to beat that

I do frequent a M3 forum and yeah I was planning on posting this there too. I bet Im not the only that has though about this comparison.

haha that is very true about the FRS since it is pretty much a toyota, and thats what these guys are known for. I have never owned a boxer engine car so Im not too sure about that, but I like I said I wont judge until these cars have been out and about for a year at least.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by arsen89

WOW! 4K on a brake job, yeah on the other hand I did not think it would be quite that much but I dont mind getting my hands dirty.

Not that they're not expensive to maintain, but those kinds of brake jobs are likely the more elaborate ones that don't need to happen every time. That's probably for new pads, rotors, fluid, etc. But still, that sounds a little steep to me, even for an M3.

Originally Posted by arsen89

Thanks for the detailed response. Yeah the main thing that is attracting me to the FRS is the maintenance and parts budget. The two year toyota care is nice, but i do most of my oil changes anyways.

I know oil changes are easy to do, but if they're getting done for free, then why not. It's one less hassle for you, plus you don't have to buy the stuff (whereas even doing the work yourself on an M3 would still require you to buy eight quarts of synthetic oil, a new filter, etc., all of which would probably cost you more than $50 each time) or get your hands dirty (which I know you said you aren't worried about). But it's convenient since they'll also rotate your tires and wash your car.

Originally Posted by arsen89

I have also heard that boxer engines on subarus are not the most reliable though and gas mileage is not great on them. Then again I heard this from friends that have the turbo engines on STIs so yeah its too early to judge the FRS on that.

Yeah, I was just going to say that, as most of the complaints about the boxer engines are with the STIs, which have lean tunes that ping, plus I've heard about issues with their rings. But also, remember that AWD commonly associated with Subaru and their boxer engines adds weight and more load just to keep four wheels turning, which obviously robs the car of a few mpg here and there.

Originally Posted by arsen89

I think my main concern with the M3 is the cost of parts and tires, etc. And while the FRS is a great car, IMO its just doesnt have the extra power and feel that an M3 has, although it is still a great car. Guess I would have to test drive one. Heard lot of people are falling for the FRS after the first test drive.

I love power and speed just like the next person, but it's hard to truly utilize (in anything other than a straight line) the 333 hp of an M3. Hell, I don't even really fully utilize the stock 286 hp in my Evo (at least not frequently enough), and chances are, neither do most owners, even though everyone is quick to slap on a turboback exhaust and re-tune the ECU. I'm sure that I'd get antsy with "only" 200 hp, but that's just because I've always had a lot more than that for almost ten years. And who knows, maybe it will feel legit since it's as light as it is. But being older now, considering fuel efficiency and appreciating handling capabilities rather than overrating straightline acceleration, the FR-S/BRZ will never be crossed off the list and brushed aside, even with 200 hp.