recently acquired '11 Cayman vs. BRZ PP

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Sounds hackable.

Yeah, so is an odometer...
I've never heard of it being hacked, I'm sure it's not all *that* easy and probably requires a special programming tool that costs $$$$ and is most likely just not worth it.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Heh. The Porsche is in the shop. Classic.

You do realize Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable car makes around don't you?

[PorscheUnlimited16]

Originally Posted by Pat

You do realize Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable car makes around don't you?

I second this. My Porsche drivetrain has been 100% reliable for 20k miles driven very hard. Can’t say the same for the infotainment though. The main pcm screen had to be replaced under warranty at a nice price of 4K.

[ermax]

ZDan your analysis matches up a lot with my experience driving my dad's Boxster for a few months while I rebuilt my FRS. Shifter is garbage. The car felt very planted but heavy. I loved how much it engine brakes and the sound is addicting. Steering was slower but I loved how connected it feels. Every undulation and bump goes right into your hands. That was my favorite part of driving the car. The PSM was also way less intrusive than our VSC. I had fun with the car but really missed my shifter and once I got my car back on the road I knew with confidence that the FRS is hands down more fun to drive. Not just because of the shifter either. My dad had a 2003 987 so it's wasn't as powerful as your Caymen so that had an impact on fun factor.

[ZDan]

I got the car back from the shop last week At hideous expense

I have to say the car is tremendously improved, MUCH more so than I expected Here's what went into it:

From Porsche: remanufactured transmission, GT3 shift console (with metal bushings instead of plastic), updated cables and brackets (improved design supersedes original).

Aftermarket:
Black Forest Industries leather/aluminum shift knob, which is a good deal shorter than stock (I *hated* the factory knob, just feels BLEH).
Function First stiffer transmission mounts and stiffeners for the factory engine mounts.

Shifting action and feel are soooo much better. Throws are also a bit shorter due to the shift knob being about an inch shorter. Of course this also moves it away from the steering wheel a bit, but IMO it's a decent tradeoff. Shifting is no longer a joyless chore, yay!

Other used 987s I had test-driven with similar miles (60k +/-) also had the craptastic feel that mine did before being fixed, I had assumed it was just a "feature" of the car. But now I think that it might be due to wear in the plastic shifter console and the cables, and perhaps linkages and forks in the transmission itself. With all new parts, shifting is actually pretty damn good! Not quite as direct as in the BRZ but not *nearly* as far off as before.

Sweeeet...

Mont Tremblant is in a week and a half, I'm looking forward to seeing how this machine gets around the track!

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Yeah, so is an odometer...
I've never heard of it being hacked, I'm sure it's not all *that* easy and probably requires a special programming tool that costs $$$$ and is most likely just not worth it.

I'd say, for Porsche money, it's worth it to buy such a machine. You can then sell your 60k beater 911 turbo for 100k. This happens all the time in the exotics world.

https://jalopnik.com/ferrari-admits-...nge-1823368905

Hell, this kind of thing is worth it in the Dodge world, so why not the Porsche world too?

Originally Posted by Pat

You do realize Porsche is consistently one of the most reliable car makes around don't you?

Porsche's reliability image is through JD Powers and the like, which are very short term studies.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ity-table.html

That's the second link for a search on Porsche reliability.

JD Powers is useless. Warranty repair studies, however, are good stuff.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Other used 987s I had test-driven with similar miles (60k +/-) also had the craptastic feel that mine did before being fixed, I had assumed it was just a "feature" of the car. But now I think that it might be due to wear in the plastic shifter console and the cables, and perhaps linkages and forks in the transmission itself. With all new parts, shifting is actually pretty damn good! Not quite as direct as in the BRZ but not *nearly* as far off as before.

My 987.2 only had ~30k miles on it and the shifter wasn't nearly as bad as everyone around here seems to complain about. You might be right about wear on older cars being the cause.

Congrats on getting everything fixed! Let us know your thoughts from your track day.

[James H]

Problem is that European cars either use Getrag or ZF for trannies. Both of which have a tendency to use their customers for beta testing their cutting edge technology. Toyota sticks to Aisin, that's why Toyota's have relatively reliable trannies.

[James H]

I drove both a pre and post 2014 Cayman and I find the first generation to be more raw and fun. They are harder to drive because you get the feeling the car will go into snap oversteer if you overdo it. The newer gen Caymans feel like comfy GT cars.

[WolfpackS2k]

Shifter feel does suffer in the Cayman, since the transmission is hanging off the rear end of the car. I noted this in my car comparison when I bought mine back in 2013. I still have the original shift cables but would like to upgrade to the Numeric racing ones.

Of course, I've rowed the shifter of a GT4 and it felt amazing, so it's definitely possible to make this setup feel good.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I'd say, for Porsche money, it's worth it to buy such a machine. You can then sell your 60k beater 911 turbo for 100k. This happens all the time in the exotics world.

For one thing, a 60k mile 987 Cayman is not "exotic". For another, linked article says nothing about Porsches or Dodges, only that Ferrari dealers have had means to reset odometers to zero. It has little bearing on how trustworthy Porsche's counts for revs at different ranges are.

As I said, it's hackable just like odometers are, which all cars have. So if you're the kinda guy who worries about this kinda thing, you'll get to worry about it whatever car you're buying anyway.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I still have the original shift cables but would like to upgrade to the Numeric racing ones.

You might just try the updated OEM cables and brackets, and a different shift mechanism. I was considering the Numeric short-shifter and OEM cables, but I'm really glad I decided to try updated cables with a new GT3 shift console, it has worked out even better than I expected.

I wasn't going to try the Numeric cables because IMO stiffer cables might impede feel a bit more and might even cause some binding.

[WolfpackS2k]

I'll keep that in mind!

Semi related, here's some footage from an HPDE I did 2 weekends ago. Was 100° both days, absolutely brutal! And a strong headwind down the main straight too...but still an awesome time. The Civic seen constantly is a friend of mine, we went back and forth all the time haha. Shows you what you can do with a lightweight car...with a Prelude engine under the hood

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Mont Tremblant is in a week and a half, I'm looking forward to seeing how this machine gets around the track!

Fun track. I know it from sim racing but I’m sure it’s even more fun IRL. Good luck with the new car!

Hah, I found a 9 year old video of it on my YouTube channel:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEM25grfj8[/ame]

Now I have the itch to find a version of this track for rFactor 2.