GT86 Collectors Car?

[NWFRS]

Ha.

No.

They're too cheap, and already being sold in greater numbers than most similar cars as a result. The Mazda Miata is a PERFECT example of what to expect from the twins as they get older. I'm thinking that that the most they'll ever be worth...is what we paid for them. Unless you park it in the garage for sixty years. :-/

[rice_classic]

My prediction:

In 10 years, a well maintained, 100% unmodified 86 will be a unicorn and it's resale value will reflect that.

[NemesisPrime909]

no

in 10-15 years this will be the new 240sx

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

My prediction:

In 10 years, a well maintained, 100% unmodified 86 will be a unicorn and it's resale value will reflect that.

Said this a lot of times and I know there are not many that believe it but... The majority of these cars will get bought, left stock, driven daily to the workplace and rarely (if ever) get driven the way they are supposed to be. We have a huge bias that they will all be modded but even on this forum many are and will be left pretty much stock. There will be many of them to be found that have not been molested for a long time. Now once they get dirt cheap and in range of the average 17 year old then all bets are off.

[humfrz]

Well, it's hard to tell .....

I remember, back in the day (about 1953/54), my uncle owned a Chevrolet dealership. He had this white, 1953 Corvette, with red interior, sitting all alone on his lot.

He couldn't "give them away", ..... so he said.

My father wouldn't have any part of the little, plastic, cobbled together car.

Yep, it was a small, light, nimble, rear wheel drive, underpowered car.

The one below was sold by Barrett-Jackson last year for $660,000.

Just sayen .....


humfrz

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

My prediction:

In 10 years, a well maintained, 100% unmodified 86 will be a unicorn and it's resale value will reflect that.

I disagree. There are perfect examples of MR2 Spyders and Miatas with very low miles that are 15 or more years old with less than 30K miles on them, babied and never modified and you can still pick them up for 1/2 of their original list price. The twins have already out sold the full run of MR-S and are still selling reasonably well.

The prices of good used examples may stabilize and they may start to hold their a portion of their value but I seriously doubt if prices will even reach their bought new price and time in the next 30+ years.

While a cherry twin with low miles might be desirable in the future, it is doubtful that it will ever be considered collectible in the accepted automotive sense of the word IMO.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, it's hard to tell .....

I remember, back in the day (about 1953/54), my uncle owned a Chevrolet dealership. He had this white, 1953 Corvette, with red interior, sitting all alone on his lot.

He couldn't "give them away", ..... so he said.

My father wouldn't have any part of the little, plastic, cobbled together car.

Yep, it was a small, light, nimble, rear wheel drive, underpowered car.

The one below was sold by Barrett-Jackson last year for $660,000.

Just sayen .....


humfrz

Hum! Are you really comparing the value of 1 of 300 first year production vehicles of a world wide automotive icon to the twins?
And here I have always liked you.

[roddy]

I kind of agree with @rice_classic. If you keep it nice, it will be worth some money down the road. Hemi 'Cuda money? No, but find a nice, unmolested, low mileage '70-'71 240Z, and see how much cash that sets you back.
As for my FR-S...it will be worth it's weight in scrap metal by the time I'm ready to part with it.

[strat61caster]

From an enthusiast perspective? Yes, always desirable.

From a financial investment perspective? You are literally better off placing the money under a mattress for the next 20 years and then selling it to collectors because physical money is a novelty.

Any car that was produced in attainable numbers, even as low as a couple thousand units is not worth what was paid for it brand new unless there are extenuating circumstances (i.e. they melted away or this is a special unit). At best you could sell a Toyobaru for what was spent on it new (inflation adjusted) in about 50 years, everything I've seen points to that number working out from 911's and Corvette's and Mustangs and Sprites and TR6's to cars that are halfway through that age curve like Miata's and RX-7's and AE86's and 911's and Corvettes Mustangs.

You wanna make money buying and selling one of these as a classic? Sell what you've got now, buy a car from the 80's-90's give or take a few years (Miata, Trans-Am, Miata, Mustang, Miata, RX-7, Miata, AE86, Miata, MR2, Miata, 240sx, MX-5, GTV6) for around $5k, keep it mint for the next 20 years, sell it for a fat profit as the kids of that decade hit mid-life crisis and buy a ~20 year old Toyobaru at under $10k (or slightly higher because inflation), hope fossil fuels are still relevant and sell that 20 years later.

1965 911 MSRP ~$6k
50 years later top condition car is ~$40k
Inflation adjusted $6k 50 years later is $37.2k
at 60 years later, low condition cars are >$100k and up to $300k for special ones
And if that money was stuck in an index fund it'd be up in the $150k range guaranteed after 60 years.

The real trick is to go back in time and pick up a decent longhood 911 (or 'vette) for $500 in the 80's, I'm sure there are guys here who saw cars like that with those prices and those cars are now worth well into six figures.

There's data for the 1985 Supra, which MSRP'd for about $16k, 30 years later a top condition car is worth at best $17k, I won't bother doing the inflation adjustment to tell you how much that car is in the hole for somebody holding onto it as a collector car. However you can pick up decent ones for <$10k now, fix it up and hold out for 20 years, much safer investment than the toyobaru.

My money would be on early RX-7's and MR2's, both novelty cars, both performers, both dirt cheap right now (i.e. lower than what was paid for them in the 80's brand new).

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hum! Are you really comparing the value of 1 of 300 first year production vehicles of a world wide automotive icon to the twins?..............

Well, @Tcoat ....... I reckon you have a good point.

So, I'll just unwrap my FR-S and drive it .....


humfrz

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

From an enthusiast perspective? Yes, always desirable.

From a financial investment perspective? You are literally better off placing the money under a mattress for the next 20 years and then selling it to collectors because physical money is a novelty.

Any car that was produced in attainable numbers, even as low as a couple thousand units is not worth what was paid for it brand new unless there are extenuating circumstances (i.e. they melted away or this is a special unit). At best you could sell a Toyobaru for what was spent on it new (inflation adjusted) in about 50 years, everything I've seen points to that number working out from 911's and Corvette's and Mustangs and Sprites and TR6's to cars that are halfway through that age curve like Miata's and RX-7's and AE86's and 911's and Corvettes Mustangs.

You wanna make money buying and selling one of these as a classic? Sell what you've got now, buy a car from the 80's-90's give or take a few years (Miata, Trans-Am, Miata, Mustang, Miata, RX-7, Miata, AE86, Miata, MR2, Miata, 240sx, MX-5, GTV6) for around $5k, keep it mint for the next 20 years, sell it for a fat profit as the kids of that decade hit mid-life crisis and buy a ~20 year old Toyobaru at under $10k (or slightly higher because inflation), hope fossil fuels are still relevant and sell that 20 years later.

1965 911 MSRP ~$6k
50 years later top condition car is ~$40k
Inflation adjusted $6k 50 years later is $37.2k
at 60 years later, low condition cars are >$100k and up to $300k for special ones
And if that money was stuck in an index fund it'd be up in the $150k range guaranteed after 60 years.

The real trick is to go back in time and pick up a decent longhood 911 (or 'vette) for $500 in the 80's, I'm sure there are guys here who saw cars like that with those prices and those cars are now worth well into six figures.

There's data for the 1985 Supra, which MSRP'd for about $16k, 30 years later a top condition car is worth at best $17k, I won't bother doing the inflation adjustment to tell you how much that car is in the hole for somebody holding onto it as a collector car. However you can pick up decent ones for <$10k now, fix it up and hold out for 20 years, much safer investment than the toyobaru.

My money would be on early RX-7's and MR2's, both novelty cars, both performers, both dirt cheap right now (i.e. lower than what was paid for them in the 80's brand new).

Agree with most but strongly disagree with the "buy it now and fix it up" concept. Unless you are talking a nice barn find Bugatti or something fixing up a car does not work if you want any real collector value to it. Those top dollar ones are all original, low mile oddities not a well used but fixed up version. This means that if you truly want to gamble on a car becoming collectable you buy it, park it, maintain it and hope to hell somebody really wants it 30 years down the road.
Not to say it can't still happen with just the right car but most of those 30+ year old cars that fetch big bucks now were made in much smaller numbers than modern cars and were pretty rare to start with.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

My prediction:

In 10 years, a well maintained, 100% unmodified 86 will be a unicorn and it's resale value will reflect that.

Like the S2000 arguably a better car produced in lower volume?

Kelly blue book values a mint 10,000 mile 2000 m.y. S2000 at $15k. We all know that's bogus and the reality is you'd be lucky to pry it from it's owner for $20k, the absolute ceiling on that car is $25k for a late model (<10 years old) with sub 40k miles. And that's a car that retailed for >$30k and while values have stabilized as the 86 hits used markets I bet the S2000 will continue it's downward trend, maybe never dipping below $10k for the average worthy example (DD-able, only light work, good cosmetics) due to the supply never outpacing demand but that's at 1/3 the 'actual dollars' of the original purchase price.

Nah, 86 value will decline steadily for 20+ years, I wager we'll see them below the $10k mark.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Agree with most but strongly disagree with the "buy it now and fix it up" concept. Unless you are talking a nice barn find Bugatti or something fixing up a car does not work if you want any real collector value to it. Those top dollar ones are all original, low mile oddities not a well used but fixed up version. This means that if you truly want to gamble on a car becoming collectable you buy it, park it, maintain it and hope to hell somebody really wants it 30 years down the road.
Not to say it can't still happen with just the right car but most of those 30+ year old cars that fetch big bucks now were made in much smaller numbers than modern cars and were pretty rare to start with.

You haven't looked at the 911 market have you? People didn't even fix up some of those $500 hunks of junk and ask several tens of thousands for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=191575866300

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=111664846946

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=281685675277

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=141658665701

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=221764612057

I'm not talking top dollar cars, I'm talking drivers cars that are cheap today and will be desirable tomorrow, just like those 911's and Corvettes'.

Boxster would be a good pickup, they're in the low teens, someday early water cooled Porsche's will get similar treatment to the air cooled ones. Cars like the 928/944 are starting to pick back up again after languishing under $5k for the last 10 years with nice examples fetching $10k+ It isn't unreasonable for a DIYer to drive a project car as a second car wait 10-20 years and make enough money to fund a new daily driver and project car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, @Tcoat ....... I reckon you have a good point.

So, I'll just unwrap my FR-S and drive it .....


humfrz

Or just pray for about 100,000 of them to get totaled!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Like the S2000 arguably a better car produced in lower volume?

Kelly blue book values a mint 10,000 mile 2000 m.y. S2000 at $15k. We all know that's bogus and the reality is you'd be lucky to pry it from it's owner for $20k, the absolute ceiling on that car is $25k for a late model (<10 years old) with sub 40k miles. And that's a car that retailed for >$30k and while values have stabilized as the 86 hits used markets I bet the S2000 will continue it's downward trend, maybe never dipping below $10k for the average worthy example (DD-able, only light work, good cosmetics) due to the supply never outpacing demand but that's at 1/3 the 'actual dollars' of the original purchase price.

Nah, 86 value will decline steadily for 20+ years, I wager we'll see them below the $10k mark.



You haven't looked at the 911 market have you? People didn't even fix up some of those $500 hunks of junk and ask several tens of thousands for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=191575866300

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=111664846946

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=281685675277

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=141658665701

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=221764612057

I'm not talking top dollar cars, I'm talking drivers cars that are cheap today and will be desirable tomorrow, just like those 911's and Corvettes'.

Boxster would be a good pickup, they're in the low teens, someday early water cooled Porsche's will get similar treatment to the air cooled ones. Cars like the 928/944 are starting to pick back up again after languishing under $5k for the last 10 years with nice examples fetching $10k+ It isn't unreasonable for a DIYer to drive a project car wait 10-20 years and make enough money to fund a new daily driver and project car.

I did say there were exceptions but again those were all pretty low run cars. Notice that even though battered they were all still original cars and not fixed up. One final note as well is that what people ask for them and what they actually get are two different worlds as can be seen by all the "reserve not met on those ones.


My statement was more around collector level cars and I do agree with you 100% when taking about driver level ones.