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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 10-08-2014, 02:22 PM   #1
NonStopTuning
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NonStopTuning Pulley Kit Info, Dyno Charts, User Feedback



Hey all!

As some of you know, and are using on your cars, NST offers a set of lightweight pulleys for the FA20 powered FRS and BRZ...
http://www.shopnonstoptuning.com/sto...NST08686K.html

I've decided to start a comprehensive thread here dedicated to info and feedback regarding these pulleys. I will share some of the technical data regarding these pulleys and ask that you guys add your real world reviews based on your experiences with these parts on your cars. I'm sure the community and your fellow board members will appreciate your feedback just as much, if not more, as the info I can provide.

General Technical Info/Data

The NST Lite series is a designation used for pulleys that are light-weight versions of their OEM counterparts. All NST pulleys are built using High quality 6061-T6 aircraft aluminum and are easily 60% to 70% lighter than steel or cast iron OEM pulleys.

The NST Lite series is designed for owners looking to reduce weight and increase the throttle response of their engines. These OEM-diameter pulleys will neither underdrive nor overdrive the associated accessories, yet lead to great throttle response and improved horsepower numbers in many applications.

The NST CR-Lite Pulley KIT is compatible with naturally aspirated, turbocharged, or supercharged applications, and is compatible with the OEM belt. No belt change is required when this crank pulley is used.

Each NST Scion FRS / Subaru BRZ Pulley is carefully crafted from 6061-T6 aircraft aluminum, tested and balanced to high tolerances. Every NST pulley is hard anodized for exceptional durability and is a great item for use at the track or on the street.

Standard Color: Red.
Custom Colors: Black, Purple, Gold, Blue.


BENEFITS

Great weight reduction
- Average of 65% – 70% over OEM
Increased horsepower
- Average of 7 – 10 horsepower
Lower ET’s & higher trap speeds
- Average of .20s & average of 2MPH

- OEM Crank Pulley 60oz
- NST Crank Pulley 12oz

- OEM Water Pump Pulley 22oz
- NST Water Pump Pulley 10oz

- OEM Alternator Pulley 10oz
- NST Alternator Pulley 3oz










For those of you installing these pulleys in the coming weeks, please note: AS SEEN IN THE PHOTOS from our website, the snap rings in these pulleys should face OUT. Just for clarification, there is a correct and incorrect way to install these pulleys.

Thanks all!



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Old 10-08-2014, 02:25 PM   #2
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Dyno Testing

From the NonStopTuning Blog: http://wp.me/pPD1d-FP







The MAIN thing to understand here is that NST pulleys improve power, torque, and response across the entire power band. If you look at the area under the power and torque curves you will notice that there are positive gains in the low, mid, and high range of the power band when NST Pulleys are used. No other modification in this price range can offer similar gains across the entire power band. This fact make the NST Pulleys one of the best bang per buck modifications for this engine.

Click here for FULL article, images, info: http://wp.me/pPD1d-FP


Thanks
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:37 PM   #3
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ON THE TOPIC OF VIBRATIONS, HARMONICS, AND SAFETY

This one deserves an entire book, but here goes...


QUESTION: Will NST Pulleys lead to premature engine failure?

I cover this topic several times a month but I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...

In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.

Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other Japanese engine and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. In addition, the rubber is in part designed to help the inherent balancing flaws in a cast iron pulley. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well? What happens when the cast iron pulley begins to crack and chip with age? Will the balance of this pulley get better or worse with age?

NST Pulleys are CNC machined T6 aluminum pieces and are anodized for extra strength and durability. These CNC pieces are zero balanced from day one, do not have the inherent flaws of cast iron pieces, and do not require extra damping properties of rubber.

NST customers have consistently reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys vs OEM, especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber in the OEM pulley is such a vital and super important piece? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be?

On a relatively near stock motor with bolt-on mods or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consequences.

The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attenuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.

Now weak engines that are pushing the limit with LOTS of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 500HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?

As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internally balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.

There are a lot of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting roughly 30 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes. These guys would not use NST pulleys if they were not reliable.

NST sponsored the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. The same car was very competitive in the Grand Am series and had factory backing from Toyota, Scion, and TRD. This car used pulleys from NST with great results since day one.

NST has sponsored several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Several of our cars have also competed in the Xtreme Drift Circuit and NOPI Drift series. To make things better, NST products are also used in autocross, time attack, and drag cars. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.

We could go on and on...

Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. As I said... small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critical harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an RPM only reached by certain RACE engines. A mildly modded engine (intake, header, exhaust, etc) be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with LOTS of boost will probably suffer. In this case, the stock damper is not adequate either.

Some of the older american V8 engines are externally balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result. You will not find solid NST pulleys on our website for such engines.

Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above categories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die nor have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.

I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject; as it applies in your case.

Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. But please remember... No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. Not all pulleys are created equal, and no other pulley is an NST pulley.

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:40 PM   #4
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For anyone who may be interested, NST also offers the Gates Blue Racing Belt for the FRS and BRZ...
http://www.nonstoptuning.rpmware.com...i-2018070.aspx

Your OEM belt is compatible with the NST Pulley Kit and a belt swap is not necessary, but we do offer this option for anyone looking to use the absolute best belt possible, and the blue is also a nice visual touch. Too bad they don't offer this belt in all the NST pulley colors.

Thanks everyone!

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:48 PM   #5
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Here's a question we've received several times via email, pm, etc.

Q: I just received my pulley and it looks like it's damaged.
There seems to be a nick/notch/ding on the edge of the pulley.

A: Your OEM crank pulley has the same mark in the same location.
This is called a "timing mark" and is used to time the engine should service ever be needed in the future.



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Old 10-08-2014, 04:20 PM   #6
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Thanks Mike for picking my car for the stock dyno test subject. The guys at Carboys did a nice and fast installation, along with running the car on the dyno.

As for the pulleys and how they perform, I'd say they work pretty well. The effects are subtle (no giant HP gains), but definitively there. The car feels smoother taking off, and just in general especially with in town driving. Probably the biggest noticeable effect right away is down low in the RPM's in the torque dip, and when wringing it out up high.
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CarzCarzCarz View Post
Thanks Mike for picking my car for the stock dyno test subject. The guys at Carboys did a nice and fast installation, along with running the car on the dyno.

As for the pulleys and how they perform, I'd say they work pretty well. The effects are subtle (no giant HP gains), but definitively there. The car feels smoother taking off, and just in general especially with in town driving. Probably the biggest noticeable effect right away is down low in the RPM's in the torque dip, and when wringing it out up high.
And thank you for offering up your car and allowing us to add NST pulleys as your very first performance mod



Anyone else reading this do NST pulleys as their first bolt-on?

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Old 10-09-2014, 12:23 AM   #8
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Copying my pictures over here. They look quite good. Install coming this weekend.



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Old 10-10-2014, 03:10 AM   #9
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Those are some great looking pulleys!

Be sure to post your review here in this thread after your install.

Thanks
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:14 PM   #10
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Has anyone else from the NST GB had a chance to install their kit yet?

If so, feel free to post a review with us!

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Old 10-13-2014, 09:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NonStopTuning View Post
Has anyone else from the NST GB had a chance to install their kit yet?

If so, feel free to post a review with us!

Well, I tried. I got the crank and water pump pulleys on, and they're working fantastically! I'll get a video up soon.




Directions
I used this pdf from RallySportDirect and Perrin for installing the accessory pulleys. These install and warning threads helped me with crank pulley installation.

Install Process
I lack an impact wrench or strap wrench for the alternator pulley bolt(24mm), so I still have the stock one on. The crank bolt (22mm) was on there really tight, and took quite a long breaker bar to get off. The water pump pulley bolts are easy enough to remove with a regular ratchet and a 10mm socket. I also accidentally removed the o-ring with the stock crank pulley, and installed my NST crank pulley before I noticed. This pulley is machined very tight, and it was a fight to get it off. I used a bit of Liquid Wrench silicone spray lube and a screwdriver as a lever to get the NST pulley off the crank spacer. with that accomplished, I replaced the stock o-ring, and all was right.

Review
The engine seems to spin up a bit more freely when blipping the throttle during a downshift. I thought I noticed a new noise, and checked the intake system, noting nothing wrong. I'll keep an eye on the pulleys for any abnormalities.
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Old 10-14-2014, 01:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJuan View Post

Install Process
I lack an impact wrench or strap wrench for the alternator pulley bolt(24mm), so I still have the stock one on.
If you can get a wrench on the alternator bolt and have an old belt laying around you could possibly do a makeshift strap wrench with a pair of vise grips and a section of the belt.

I'm looking forward to putting mine on in a week or so. Going on a group drive with my local subaru club.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by CoupedUpSubie View Post
If you can get a wrench on the alternator bolt and have an old belt laying around you could possibly do a makeshift strap wrench with a pair of vise grips and a section of the belt.

I'm looking forward to putting mine on in a week or so. Going on a group drive with my local subaru club.
Tried that. My old belt was too cheap, and broke. Then, I used both layers. My pliers didn't give a long enough lever. I'm gonna try borrowing an impact wrench.
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:54 PM   #14
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Anyone gonna try this belt?

http://www.customcarscentral.com/gat...FQ9cfgodtF4AmQ

It might be a bit much
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