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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 11-18-2012, 10:35 PM   #701
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Quote:
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What makes you say that?
Based on the firing order and the way the stock runners are paired. 1 3 2 4. 1 is paired right with two with a complete 180 for runner one. All that's going to do is push all the air into runner two and not flow out.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:30 AM   #702
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Based on the firing order and the way the stock runners are paired. 1 3 2 4. 1 is paired right with two with a complete 180 for runner one. All that's going to do is push all the air into runner two and not flow out.
But that pairing gives even pulse widths. If 1 and 3 were paired the collector would see pulse, pulse, blank, blank. This way it's pulse, blank, pulse, blank, which gives even opportunity for scavenging. Doesn't it?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:22 AM   #703
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Quote:
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But that pairing gives even pulse widths. If 1 and 3 were paired the collector would see pulse, pulse, blank, blank. This way it's pulse, blank, pulse, blank, which gives even opportunity for scavenging. Doesn't it?
No. The way my header is paired is how it's going to scavenge. If the header was off I would take a video and show you how mine worked and how we test it. But it can't scavenge number 3 if it's not connected to number 3 at all. When 1 fires it should already be scavenging it from the next cylinder about to fire.can't do that if the stock header is a tri y and paired to the wrong cylinder. The way this 4:1 collector is paired is better than the factory with the firing order. By the look of this collector when 1 fires it will scavenge air from 3. and then 2 from 4. The shop that made my header went with a 360 4:1. Where 1 will scavenge from 3 then 3 from 2 then 2 from 4 then 4 from 1. Either way both desgines will be better than factory.The only reason I could see Toyota/Subaru making the header the way it is, is because of sound. They way it's paired definitely won't have that subie rumble.

Update:
I had the morning off today so I went into the shop where my stock header is and did a little scavenge test. Looks like I was right stock header is garbage. Doesn't scavenge from any cylinder. I'll take my header off sometime this week and do the same test. But for now I used a full race divided housing to compare.

Last edited by Do Boy; 11-19-2012 at 11:31 AM. Reason: update
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:48 AM   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
But that pairing gives even pulse widths. If 1 and 3 were paired the collector would see pulse, pulse, blank, blank. This way it's pulse, blank, pulse, blank, which gives even opportunity for scavenging. Doesn't it?
Yes.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:02 AM   #705
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id like a 4-1 catted just to keep off the MIL and make up the tq
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:24 AM   #706
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@Do Boy: that's not a very significant test, you're making a longer pressure wave in static conditions, there's no flow or waves coming from the other cylinders.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:39 AM   #707
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Quote:
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@Do Boy: that's not a very significant test, you're making a longer pressure wave in static conditions, there's no flow or waves coming from the other cylinders.
I realize it's prolly not the best way to test. But it gives you the best idea. Shooting air into one of the cylinders will show how it pulls out from the next. All four cyliders wont fire at once. So 1 when fires it's already pulling from 3 so when 3 fires its already being pulled out

I'm not claiming to be an expert. I am just re hashing everything I have learned over the years going from shop to shop. But all the fabrications shops here in Houston seem to all have the same method to testing their collectors.

I could be wrong in all this. But all I am aware of and care is that the header I purchased made power. That's all that really matters to me.

Last edited by Do Boy; 11-19-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:53 AM   #708
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Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
Somethings telling me they're having trouble finding significant gains over the stock piece. And that isn't meant to say the Nameless crew are doing a bad job, quite the opposite, I think the stock header is very well made.
See post #3 in this thread, it contains the dyno sheets. Finding power is not the problem. They have just been busy on other projects.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #710
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Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
So be it than. Guess I'm wrong. Good day everyone and happy holidays.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Boy View Post
No. The way my header is paired is how it's going to scavenge. If the header was off I would take a video and show you how mine worked and how we test it. But it can't scavenge number 3 if it's not connected to number 3 at all. When 1 fires it should already be scavenging it from the next cylinder about to fire.can't do that if the stock header is a tri y and paired to the wrong cylinder. The way this 4:1 collector is paired is better than the factory with the firing order. By the look of this collector when 1 fires it will scavenge air from 3. and then 2 from 4. The shop that made my header went with a 360 4:1. Where 1 will scavenge from 3 then 3 from 2 then 2 from 4 then 4 from 1. Either way both desgines will be better than factory.The only reason I could see Toyota/Subaru making the header the way it is, is because of sound. They way it's paired definitely won't have that subie rumble.

Update:
I had the morning off today so I went into the shop where my stock header is and did a little scavenge test. Looks like I was right stock header is garbage. Doesn't scavenge from any cylinder. I'll take my header off sometime this week and do the same test. But for now I used a full race divided housing to compare.
Stock FR-S BRZ and GT86 header. - YouTube
Thanks for the video!

Wouldn't that have more to do with the collectors then the pairing, though? I'm not a header expert, but from my understanding you want the pulse widths to be even.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:35 PM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint View Post
Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
That's harsher then was required. Even if the man is wrong, there's no need to be like that.

In the end, he was trying to make the point that the stock header doesn't scavenge very well, and I think he made it. A dynamic test may reveal something different, of course, but this is the best most of us could do with what we have on hand. I disagree with his conclusion as to why but that's why we have conversions.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:49 PM   #713
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Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
Feel free to contribute by elaborating.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:38 AM   #714
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