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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 06-20-2012, 01:54 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ranatsu View Post
But what about all of the header designs on subaru's without flex joints, they always crack at the flanges.. Borla, gt spec, perrin, all of them seem to do it. The only exhaust manifolds I have not seen crack, are the ones with the flex joints.

Its honestly the only reason I never switched from the factory manifolds on my STi.
That is due to extremely exhaust gas temperatures on forced induction engines and the fact that many of those companies do not run thick wall pipe (Sched 10/Sched 40) on their designs iirc. Perrin uses 16ga .065 wall tubing. Our header on this car is the same 16ga, but the difference thermally between an N/A header and a turbo header means less impact from coefficient of thermal expansion of the T304 stainless.

Our header for the STi is Sched 10, no flexes and hasn't had an issue. Sched 10 is .109 wall. Not light, but insanely strong:

[IMG][/IMG]


Hanzo, if you heard the back story as to why we call ourselves Nameless you might have some further appreciation of our company. We call ourselves Nameless Performance for two reasons: One, we heavily involve our customers in our development process and didn't feel right putting our own names on our company when we have multiple engineers, designers, manufacturing experts and enthusiasts as customers who heavily influence the direction we take our product line. Two, it's a sardonic tongue in cheek jab at the flood of emerging market 'no-name' products the flood the market. We're the exact opposite of that. And over one thousand exhaust customers in the last year have taken us seriously and been extremely pleased with the results. We have an excellent reputation in the Subaru community. Feel free to search details of our company over on NASIOC for a full history of our growth as a company.

arghx7, I like how you think. Optional is the best way to go. Configurability is our middle name. I'm going to keep our software under our hat unfortunately, but it's a readily available header design software. It does NOT take into account cam phasing and variable cam timing, but it does take into account typical 4 valve per cylinder scavenging based on a lot of data we pump into it that we discussed earlier. Also as discussed earlier, changing a few of these variables like camshaft duration still puts us in a round up or round down to the two tubing diameters we are using on these test units, so it's not terribly critical in the overall scheme of things - also, that is why we are testing multiple designs on the dyno. The software is going to get us on the green but the dyno will let us putt to the cup, so to speak.

Tainen, we were hoping to have time to test fit the GroupN STi motor mounts on your car but I don't think that is going to happen this time around. As for the impact on the header, that's not the real issue in needing flex couplings, the concern is rather, that the thermal expansion of the tubing will result in each side fighting one another (expansion and contraction) and impact the welds. One note, we do have slotted holes on these flanges to prevent any stress from impacting the studs. I've certainly seen that on turbo manifolds with non stepped or non slotted hole designs.

We will be thermally monitoring surface temperatures of the header on the dyno for a number of reasons (heat shield requirements as well as calculating actual thermal expansion distances/stresses).

J

Last edited by Jason@Nameless; 06-20-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:57 PM   #58
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Me too, I'll take quality and function over brand recognition every time.
I am just saying since the product looks very quality the name/brand should reflect it as well.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #59
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Oh and durability wise, one of these headers is going to a track day on Friday and both will have multiple dyno pulls tomorrow. That's a good start! It will not have flex couplings onboard....and we have no plans to put them in any of the tested units so that we can get worst case scenario data on them. We plan on putting one of the other units on a car temporarily (a car driven by a very local hoonigan) for further testing of oxygen sensor jetting in non catted designs as well as thermal/stress testing.

Bottom line is this, if we release the header without the flex couplings after determining they are not necessary and they fail, we will replace them. Honestly, most of the people I know who have had header failures on their built EJ25's and 20's are from the flex coupling failing from metal fatigue. Granted, almost all of those companies use the bellows only style designs and not the spiral lock style that we would be optionally/non optionally including with this header.

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #60
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awesome stuff, can't wait to see the final dyno numbers from the full system from the header to the exhaust tip.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:06 PM   #61
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Jason, I have no doubt by looking at these pictures that you guys make quality product. For people who don't know the background story of how you got the name it's hard to embrace the brand. The name reminds me of JDM brands like Backyard Special, Hippo Sleek, Top Setup, etc.

Not putting you down in fact, I think you are too good for the odd name.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:07 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanzo View Post
I am just saying since the product looks very quality the name/brand should reflect it as well.
We're not changing the name or branding of our company. We called our company Nameless Performance for a reason. There is a story behind it, we are by enthusiasts for enthusiasts and we have an excellent reputation. And what's the alternative? Three Letter Acronym Performance? Some Random Dude's Last Name Motorsports? Hyperbolic Adjective Engineering? Seriously, names mean nothing, reputation means everything.

Here's what we wrote three years ago when we started our business about why we do what we do and why we chose our name:

http://namelessperformance.com/about/
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless View Post
We're not changing the name or branding of our company. We called our company Nameless Performance for a reason. There is a story behind it, we are by enthusiasts for enthusiasts and we have an excellent reputation. And what's the alternative? Three Letter Acronym Performance? Some Random Dude's Last Name Motorsports? Hyperbolic Adjective Engineering? Seriously, names mean nothing, reputation means everything.

Here's what we wrote three years ago when we started our business about why we do what we do and why we chose our name:

http://namelessperformance.com/about/
I'm not saying you need to change your name. I'm just giving you feedback from someone who don't know anything about your company prior to reading this thread.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:30 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanzo View Post
Jason, I have no doubt by looking at these pictures that you guys make quality product. For people who don't know the background story of how you got the name it's hard to embrace the brand. The name reminds me of JDM brands like Backyard Special, Hippo Sleek, Top Setup, etc.

Not putting you down in fact, I think you are too good for the odd name.
I'm pickin up what you're layin down, but it doesn't take us long for the story to spread, and we'd rather have people ask and then know what we're all about than have an equally meaningless name that can't be distinguished from the sea of overstated sobriquets.

And to be honest, maybe there's a little part of our name that was an intentional throwback to the fun JDM names. :-D

J
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #65
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:56 PM   #66
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Jason, It's great to see your company expanding its lineup to the BRZ, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Dyno results from tomorrows pulls.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless View Post
I'm pickin up what you're layin down, but it doesn't take us long for the story to spread, and we'd rather have people ask and then know what we're all about than have an equally meaningless name that can't be distinguished from the sea of overstated sobriquets.

And to be honest, maybe there's a little part of our name that was an intentional throwback to the fun JDM names. :-D

J
I like the name. I assumed it was named more or less to make fun of other companies and their big names and found it funny. :shrug:

Agreed that product and reputation matter more than a name.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:22 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ranatsu View Post
But what about all of the header designs on subaru's without flex joints, they always crack at the flanges.. Borla, gt spec, perrin, all of them seem to do it. The only exhaust manifolds I have not seen crack, are the ones with the flex joints.

Its honestly the only reason I never switched from the factory manifolds on my STi.
Jason already covered it, but turbo = heat = brutal on headers. Naturally Aspirated applications shouldn't see that kind of wear unless it's a shoddy product.

I recall when I first heard of Nameless (that thread on NASIOC about "sounds like Perrin..."). Did some research, saw that Jason was active in the community and very forthcoming. Always told myself I'd buy something Nameless from then on.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless View Post
*snip*

arghx7, I like how you think. Optional is the best way to go. Configurability is our middle name. I'm going to keep our software under our hat unfortunately, but it's a readily available header design software. It does NOT take into account cam phasing and variable cam timing, but it does take into account typical 4 valve per cylinder scavenging based on a lot of data we pump into it that we discussed earlier. Also as discussed earlier, changing a few of these variables like camshaft duration still puts us in a round up or round down to the two tubing diameters we are using on these test units, so it's not terribly critical in the overall scheme of things - also, that is why we are testing multiple designs on the dyno. The software is going to get us on the green but the dyno will let us putt to the cup, so to speak.

*snip*

J
I'm using an MS Works spreadsheet... For phasing all that I do is reset the LSA/advance/retard points manually within the range of the AVCS.

Plus I'm trying to focus on the acoustic tuning, and even with accurate phasing to identify the location and duration of overlap, I still don't know the shape/amplitude of wave returns anyways. Nor the effective pressure differential between the cylinder and primary tubes. Nor temperature gradient through the system. So I start with the general estimates for wave and gas speed/temp/pressure then do some low and high estimates through the system.

Like tossing Nerf hand grenades on an accuracy/effectiveness scale, but whatever...
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:42 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless View Post
Hanzo, if you heard the back story as to why we call ourselves Nameless you might have some further appreciation of our company. We call ourselves Nameless Performance for two reasons: One, we heavily involve our customers in our development process and didn't feel right putting our own names on our company when we have multiple engineers, designers, manufacturing experts and enthusiasts as customers who heavily influence the direction we take our product line. Two, it's a sardonic tongue in cheek jab at the flood of emerging market 'no-name' products the flood the market. We're the exact opposite of that. And over one thousand exhaust customers in the last year have taken us seriously and been extremely pleased with the results. We have an excellent reputation in the Subaru community. Feel free to search details of our company over on NASIOC for a full history of our growth as a company.
That is awesome.


All of these posts regarding scavenging and all sorts of witchcraft is way above my comprehension. With that said, I do prefer a bit more torque down low, even if it sacrifices a bit of power up top. I spend maybe 15% of the time above 6k rpms anyway. Usable power is what Im about.
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