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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 06-19-2012, 08:08 PM   #29
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I'll third that.

Nice looking header, I'm excited to see dyno results.

I'd be surprised if the 1.75 lost anything over the 1.65. My experience isn't with subarus either, but this isn't a Subaru valve train. Testing will be the only way to know for sure, but I think you're on the right track as well.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:11 PM   #30
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I'll third that.

Nice looking header, I'm excited to see dyno results.
I would 4th that, but the heat shield would help.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:53 PM   #31
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:57 PM   #32
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I think I saw in a Toyota service post that the cams were 255 (so 200-210ish at .050"?). Can you share valve size, my estimate is 34.5mm. So I'm putting my lift estimate at ~9mm.

???

Are you guys keeping the stock primary lengths so we don't have to chase returns with the AVICS? I get the impression that a positive return from the primaries is what is killing the top end. So you could size the lengths of the secondaries (catless version) to cancel the bad top end return?

Looks very nice.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimman View Post
I think I saw in a Toyota service post that the cams were 255 (so 200-210ish at .050"?). Can you share valve size, my estimate is 34.5mm. So I'm putting my lift estimate at ~9mm.

???

Are you guys keeping the stock primary lengths so we don't have to chase returns with the AVICS? I get the impression that a positive return from the primaries is what is killing the top end. So you could size the lengths of the secondaries (catless version) to cancel the bad top end return?

Looks very nice.
I was looking at 2013 DI Impreza data and I got was ~35mm intake ~32mm exhaust. with 205 duration at .050. My lift estimates were 9mm. :-D I'm guessing for designing this system in a 'shoot close, re-aim' method like we are doing, our numbers are as my dad used to say "Close enough for telephone work." (he worked for the phone company). I put the exhaust port centerline length at 3.25" as these damn Subaru heads have that stupid dogleg port on one valve for a ~3.65" port centerline length and ~3.00" port centerline length. You have no idea how badly we want to design billet heads for the EJ and FA engines. I hate those port designs.

If I plug your valve size estimate in with smaller valve sizes than I estimated I'm still having to round up or down very slightly on the recommended primary/secondary diameter, and the only other item that changes is the overall recommended primary and secondary lengths drop slightly. The problem is, there's only so much you can increase the length and almost none that you can decrease the length. Recommended is 11.4-13 inch if I bump the port centerline length slightly to accommodate the dogleg in second valve section of the port (for those of you who haven't seen inside a Suby head, the 2 exhaust valves have different 'sub-port' lengths, one being substantially longer than the other), but goes up to 13.4 if I cut it back down to 3" for the shorter of the two port centerlines.

To switch the subject entirely (i'm good at that), if we go to a three stepped 4-1 header, and switch to a triple stepped header (rounding runner diameters to primary = 1.5, secondary = 1.625 and tertiary = 1.750), this design seems very do-able in terms of the lengths recommended. This also lends some credence to the idea that a larger exhaust may work well. Otherwise the numbers point to a smaller ~2.5" exhaust.

That's all I've got for now. I'm tired and it's time for dinner. I'll be back tomorrow to weigh in on this more. Unless I can't sleep tonight (probable).

J
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:07 PM   #34
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This is great that you are involving the community. Great info and posts. Cat-less is great, I would love that option, but for me it isn't very practical. Inspection and emissions testing in Pennsylvania wouldn't have that, no longer a daily.

More torque at the bottom end seems to be the way to go with this application.

Looking forward to the final decisions.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:16 PM   #35
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Badass!

OK. Now your just show'n off
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:43 PM   #36
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That looks great, but I'd bet it is going to sound even better. I love the underhood sounds that a nice large tube/thin wall header adds to the driving experience.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:00 PM   #37
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weight specs?
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
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weight specs?
Stock: 15.0lbs.
1.625 Primary / 1.750 Secondary Catted Header: 11.6lbs
1.500 Primary / 1.625 Secondary Catted Header: 10.9lbs

J

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Old 06-20-2012, 12:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimman View Post
I think I saw in a Toyota service post that the cams were 255 (so 200-210ish at .050"?). Can you share valve size, my estimate is 34.5mm. So I'm putting my lift estimate at ~9mm.
Is 200-210ish at 0.050" the typical figure for "255" cams? I wonder because the Prius is equipped with "270*" cams which seem to blow about 1/4-1/3 of the mix back out, maybe a bit less. So it should have 225 degrees "effective" duration minimum, and I guess 210+15 (or 270-45) =225, but intake acoustics mean you'd expect a little more than that. Additionally, the 2GR has ~250 degree cams which is oddly close to 255 considering that the FA20 makes peak torque at a 25% higher engine speed or so.

Excuse my rambling, we can get back to headers now.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:23 AM   #40
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I need to keep a eye on this thread! that header looks sexy.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:37 AM   #41
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That header looks absolutely amazing!

Okay now on to business, I would like to see the torque biased header (maybe tri-Y) with possibly the inclusion of the vibrant metal core cat, (I know that it would increase pricing), however as you stated the Cat needs to stay in the factory location for SCCA rules, and I believe that AutoXer's need to have a decision whether they want to hold onto the gear longer (Equal length), or shift to a higher gear for exit speeds and not have to pay the price for it (tri-Y).

The reason I'm requesting the vibrant cat is because on my Evo (I know this isn't the same car) I ran a test pipe on my exhaust, and after replacing the test pipe with the vibrant for emissions reasons I actually gained (yes read gained) 3 whp. At the time it was unheard of, and for this reason I still have the vibrant unit installed and am happy with it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:51 AM   #42
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That header looks absolutely amazing!

Okay now on to business, I would like to see the torque biased header (maybe tri-Y) with possibly the inclusion of the vibrant metal core cat, (I know that it would increase pricing), however as you stated the Cat needs to stay in the factory location for SCCA rules, and I believe that AutoXer's need to have a decision whether they want to hold onto the gear longer (Equal length), or shift to a higher gear for exit speeds and not have to pay the price for it (tri-Y).

The reason I'm requesting the vibrant cat is because on my Evo (I know this isn't the same car) I ran a test pipe on my exhaust, and after replacing the test pipe with the vibrant for emissions reasons I actually gained (yes read gained) 3 whp. At the time it was unheard of, and for this reason I still have the vibrant unit installed and am happy with it.

hmm. interesting idea. Having an extreme performance catted torque bias header would be pretty freakin sweet for real SCCA racing for sure... BUT- it would cost so much more, would many people buy it? Since it seems like everyone flocks to the cheap chinese knockoff crap because of price. (thankfully Nameless's axleback is fairly competitively priced, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the real cheap junk from the mass manufacture companies to start coming out soon... batlground twin scroll header anyone? :P as soon as the first container ship arrives with that crap it'll be all over the forums and ebay I'm sure... same with the "UUUU my exhaust fell of my car!" posts)
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