Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

My statement was not intended to be objective. The fact I stated "I would despise..." is very clearly subjective. I am not saying other people should not drive them or they have no purpose I am saying that for ME they are useless and not great to drive. This was in response to the broad statement that the Twins were "the worst" DD cars out there.
Read what was said in context and that is obvious.

Didn't say they were "the worst", only they are far from the best and many are better. There are OBJECTIVE reasons why this is absolutely true, i.e., shifting often, noise, safety, visibility of road for yourself and others.

Read what was said in context and that is obvious.....

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I've actually worked with a large auto company on the strategic/ROI level, so I probably know more about how it works than you. The fallacy in your thought process is that the "chump change" argument doesn't work when deciding on which projects to pursue. If you can get a higher ROI on another project, then you do it, no matter what the size. Smaller projects are even harder to get approval for as development costs are a greater percentage of the money you have to recoup. Go to Germany and talk to your CFO about how decisions are made in your company. I have yet to see any large company make decisions in a different way.

You remain clueless.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Didn't say they were "the worst", only they are far from the best and many are better. There are OBJECTIVE reasons why this is absolutely true, i.e., shifting often, noise, safety, visibility of road for yourself and others.

Read what was said in context and that is obvious.....

OK "Horrible" None of the rest of what you said was stated anyplace in the post I responded to.
Shifting frequency, and noise are subjective.
The cars have a far better safety rating than many SUVs.
Visibility from the car is great.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

OK "Horrible" None of the rest of what you said was stated anyplace in the post I responded to.
Shifting frequency, and noise are subjective.
The cars have a far better safety rating than many SUVs.
Visibility from the car is great.

Agreed. Road noise can be bad if you like to chat or listen to music at low volume. I’m in the camp of people that like road noise, instead of silent, numbing experience, and I rarely chat and mostly play my music loud too. It is all subjective. I need to shift. Safety depends on the vehicle. Mine has less chance of roll overs, I can maneuver better to avoid vehicles, I’m a smaller target, and I can stop faster with less momentum.

Everything he said could be equally true for a sports car or a sedan. It is subjective and/or situational. What is objective is that SUVs have a higher COG, roll more into turns and weigh more than their sedan counterparts. And in the case of the Imprezza 5door and Crosstrek (virtually identical cars except ground clearance, hatch vs crossover), the Imprezza has better mpgs and surprisingly more cargo capacity. Large tred tires can be louder too. There isn’t much objectively for him to stand on with his arguments.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by rvoll

All cars, except the very cheap ones or ones that are used for business, are status symbols -- even our cars.... If 86's were not status symbols, why get wings, lower the car, big wheels/tires, ground effects, etc.?

I think you missed the point, buying a car solely because of its status is what is being discussed and most of these people rolling around in LX470s, Escalades, ect ect are doing it solely for status. I don't think a single person buys a cheap economy sports car as a status symbol. I'm sure some people put rims on our cars for status but I suspect most people do it because they like how it looks.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Agreed. Road noise can be bad if you like to chat or listen to music at low volume. I’m in the camp of people that like road noise, instead of silent, numbing experience, and I rarely chat and mostly play my music loud too. It is all subjective. I need to shift. Safety depends on the vehicle. Mine has less chance of roll overs, I can maneuver better to avoid vehicles, I’m a smaller target, and I can stop faster with less momentum.

Everything he said could be equally true for a sports car or a sedan. It is subjective and/or situational. What is objective is that SUVs have a higher COG, roll more into turns and weigh more than their sedan counterparts. And in the case of the Imprezza 5door and Crosstrek (virtually identical cars except ground clearance, hatch vs crossover), the Imprezza has better mpgs and surprisingly more cargo capacity. Large tred tires can be louder too. There isn’t much objectively for him to stand on with his arguments.

Even in it's new quasi "sport luxury" trim the 17 Impreza is still a surprisingly noisy, bumpy and sort of raw car to ride in. I was very surprised since I expected numb as hell but it isn't. It is almost (ALMOST) like I would expect a 4 door hatch BRZ/86 to be like. Although, as you pointed out, it has a great cargo area the handling is so far away from driving an SUV it is startling. Makes the Twins seem like rockets on launch though.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Try actually driving a Honda Fit and an HVR and you'll understand why.

Why because people like sitting up taller? If given the choice between a car with a higher ride height and lower I will always side with lower. Sure I get that people want to sit up higher, but it's not something I really understand. Honestly I think the whole micro CUV thing is a fad. I bet most people who drive a mazda3 hatch and a cx3 would prefer to drive the mazda3.

[WolfpackS2k]

Haven't you heard, driving enjoyment is never an outdated commodity.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Why because people like sitting up taller? If given the choice between a car with a higher ride height and lower I will always side with lower. Sure I get that people want to sit up higher, but it's not something I really understand. Honestly I think the whole micro CUV thing is a fad. I bet most people who drive a mazda3 hatch and a cx3 would prefer to drive the mazda3.

The height thing is just a false sense of security. If people were really concerned about safety then they wouldn't all be riding ass.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by ermax

The height thing is just a false sense of security. If people were really concerned about safety then they wouldn't all be riding ass.

Not to mention the increased body roll that usually comes with riding higher. I feel safer when my car is grounded to the ground, but maybe that's just me.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by ermax

Oh and I remember going to pick up xmas trees with the Integra and when the guys were ready to take it to the car they would ask which car I was in. I would point to the Integra and they would laugh. We would get over there and I would throw it in there and completely close the hatch. Hahaha

Someone say Christmas tree in an Integra? I get my tree every year via transport with my Integra. And two years ago I used it for two trees, hahaha.

Originally Posted by JeremyR

I think this is why the crossover market is booming.. no one really needs a giant full size vehicle when it's a single person driving it most of the time. People are going as small as they can while still having the room they need.

IMO for most people they buy SUVs because they're selfish. They feel safer being up higher, mainly because they can see more. They don't really give a damn that they're blocking the view of people in cars. It's all about them. Sure, that's not the case for everyone but for a lot....they can kiss it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

The height thing is just a false sense of security. If people were really concerned about safety then they wouldn't all be riding ass.

...while texting about the book they are reading propped up on the steering wheel and redoing their lipstick because it rubbed off on the coffee they are drinking to wash down the hamburger.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

...while texting about the book they are reading propped up on the steering wheel and redoing their lipstick because it rubbed off on the coffee they are drinking to wash down the hamburger.

Speaking of texting while driving I've started to roll down my window at stoplights and honk at people if I saw them texting while driving. When they roll down their window I say, "Is that a good story you're reading?". Their responses are funny. One guy responded, "It's not a story". Oh I see, there are some forms of reading that are acceptable while driving. Hahaha

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

Speaking of texting while driving I've started to roll down my window at stoplights and honk at people if I saw them texting while driving. When they roll down their window I say, "Is that a good story you're reading?". Their responses are funny. One guy responded, "It's not a story". Oh I see, there are some forms of reading that are acceptable while driving. Hahaha

My favorite and I see it at least once a day on the highway.