Attention All VENDORS Speed shops!

[charged86]

The frs/brz/gt86 needs your help!!!. we need and adequate fuel solution to the following: (anyone please help me add or delete these requests)

1. Direct injector O-ring solution.
(higher temp rated Teflon or billet aluminum or ceramic


2. Fuel return system (we need one)
@Visconti @Don@Accelerated


3. Fuel canister rubber ring (whole canister revision?)
(oem Subaru part # 42025CA000. beginning to believe this should
replaced and included in aftermarket pump sales)
*also we need a better diy*

4. root cause of the reason for failure. ECU tuning, fuel type, etc

Since all of us forced induction guy have no warranty left and these issues are a major part of any FI system we need to have something fool proof and reliable. Please help. GOD Speed.


@Visconti @Don@Accelerated

@FT-86 speedfactory FT-86 SpeedFactory

@FullBlown

@Jesse@JDLAuotdesign JDLAutoDesign

@AVOturboworld

@Abel_PTUNING

@FA20Club.com

@Brian@Vortech

@Evasive Motorsports

@Titanmotorsports

@PERRIN_Jeff

@RallySport Direct

@MAPerfomance MAPerformance


found this on direct injection o rings
http://www.pspglobal.com/oscillating.html


found this on mk6 Volkswagen forums
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37349

[Dezoris]

Just to add this in we need root cause of the reason for failure. ECU tuning, fuel type, etc.

[charged86]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Just to add this in we need root cause of the reason for failure. ECU tuning, fuel type, etc.

added problem #4

[jamesm]

Teflon is Dupont-marketing speak for PTFE, which is only good to 300c. It also can kill you if you overheat it and breathe in the fumes. PEEK is good to ~250c. If you want to insulate much higher temps that that, you would typically use some sort of ceramic.

What kind of temperatures are we dealing with here?

edit: in response to the comment above, i agree 100%. the solution isn't a new, higher temp material. the solution is to keep the temps from getting that damn high in the first place, and that's a tuning issue (i believe).

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Teflon is Dupont-marketing speak for PTFE, which is only good to 300c. It also can kill you if you overheat it and breathe in the fumes. PEEK is good to ~250c. If you want to insulate much higher temps that that, you would typically use some sort of ceramic.

What kind of temperatures are we dealing with here?

edit: in response to the comment above, i agree 100%. the solution isn't a new, higher temp material. the solution is to keep the temps from getting that damn high in the first place, and that's a tuning issue (i believe).

According to Toyota(or was it Subaru?), we're dealing with combustion temps during knock. Apparently the combustion pressure is pushing the injectors up out of the chamber, allowing the burning gases to squeeze past and damage the seal/injector body.

If that's actually happening, then we aren't going to find a seal that will fix it, it'll just make it take longer to start misfiring or whatever it does that generates the DTCs, and it really is a tuning issue and not a hardware issue.

[charged86]

Originally Posted by Sellout

According to Toyota(or was it Subaru?), we're dealing with combustion temps during knock. Apparently the combustion pressure is pushing the injectors up out of the chamber, allowing the burning gases to squeeze past and damage the seal/injector body.

If that's actually happening, then we aren't going to find a seal that will fix it, it'll just make it take longer to start misfiring or whatever it does that generates the DTCs, and it really is a tuning issue and not a hardware issue.

Well I believe my tuning will keep that from happening I don't continuely push my car hard maybe 3 2 gear street pulls no track. I always use 93octane.

How can it push the injector out if its bolted in a few places. I thinks its melting then shoving the Teflon seal outward

[FT_Monk]

How about copper seal for the DI injector?

[Frs300]

@charged86 what size are the teflon seals do you know? or anyone else for that matter

[Sellout]

Well I believe my tuning will keep that from happening I don't continuely push my car hard maybe 3 2 gear street pulls no track. I always use 93octane.

How can it push the injector out if its bolted in a few places. I thinks its melting then shoving the Teflon seal outward

It doesn't have to move much, and the kind of pressure the combustion chamber sees during knock would easily be enough to shift the injector around a little tiny bit, but the injector itself could be getting hot enough to melt it maybe? Is there no thermal barrier in the body of the injector to protect the seal?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Frs300

@charged86 what size are the teflon seals do you know? or anyone else for that matter

Not exactly size, but a good starting point to find out:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=17

Originally Posted by romin

Given this diagram:


I believe this teflon ring is the part that folks have found damaged or completely missing from their direct injectors:


Can someone confirm?
Did other folks find additional parts damaged?

Update, others have also found these insulators damaged on many vehicles:

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by charged86

Well I believe my tuning will keep that from happening

Why?

[charged86]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Why?

Because Jon@visconti knows his tuning. I said believe I don't have raw data of my own vehicle yet

[wootwoot]

We are in very capable hands. Good luck boys. I'll have my credit card ready!

[charged86]

Nobody gonna touch this with a ten foot pole aye?