Hankook RS4 vs the competition?

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

RE-71Rs are good pretty much to cord.

Wish that were true for me. Mine were heat cycled at the wear bars. Not sure if driving to and from AutoX and HPDE events contributed to that or not. Most events are at least 1 hr drive from where I live.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Pyrometer says otherwise. How do you draw an underinflated conclusion from even graining across the entire surface of all 4 tires?

These tires have exactly 0 street miles, and rested after the first heat cycles.

How long were tires sitting after the first heat cycle?

I've ran pressures varying from 25 PSI to 32 PSI on my previous STX BMW and I've witnessed some serious graining on the tires at lower pressures. The RE-71Rs have about a 4-5 PSI window where time isn't gained or lost and tirewear significantly improves.

Graining also is pretty common on tires that aren't heat cycled properly and/or overdriven. Not saying the latter is the cause, but I've seen lots of tire failures on the RE-71Rs just from excessive inputs.


FWIW - The center ridge will always grain until there is a nice bevel to it. However looking at tread depth even on the shoulder those tires are nowhere near close to done

[oinojo]

The term "good to the cords" really depends on the surface you race on and the car setup.

For instance Qualcomm Stadium (aggregate asphalt) for any ST car needs tire tread depth deeper than 5/32" and a somewhat compliant setup to be fast.

El Toro (grippy asphalt and concrete) could run RE71R down to the cord on the same setup.

When I lived in San Diego, I would make a pile of tires that were below 5-4/32 and save them for events at El Toro. This was on different generation of tires too (Z1 Star Spec, Toyo R1R, Hankook RS3) so that confirms that its a site thing more than a tire thing.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

How long were tires sitting after the first heat cycle?

I've ran pressures varying from 25 PSI to 32 PSI on my previous STX BMW and I've witnessed some serious graining on the tires at lower pressures. The RE-71Rs have about a 4-5 PSI window where time isn't gained or lost and tirewear significantly improves.

Graining also is pretty common on tires that aren't heat cycled properly and/or overdriven. Not saying the latter is the cause, but I've seen lots of tire failures on the RE-71Rs just from excessive inputs.


FWIW - The center ridge will always grain until there is a nice bevel to it. However looking at tread depth even on the shoulder those tires are nowhere near close to done

2 weeks, not that it matters. These aren't slicks

Note that the front and rear grain virtually identically, as do the tires across the entire tread.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

2 weeks, not that it matters. These aren't slicks

Note that the front and rear grain virtually identically, as do the tires across the entire tread.

Actually, it kind of does matter surprisingly.

Confirmed with a Bridgestone rep - the RE-71Rs need a 24 hour rest after the first heat cycle in order for the bonds to break and re-form in order for the tire to work its best.

If not, then you can get some graining or undesirable tire wear. I've certainly seen it

[Robbie]

My experience is that RS4’s are just as fast as RE71R’s but have much, much better wear. Not scientific A to B testing, but temps were pretty similar for when I ran my best times on each tire and the car, track and setup had not changed.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My experience is that RS4’s are just as fast as RE71R’s but have much, much better wear. Not scientific A to B testing, but temps were pretty similar for when I ran my best times on each tire and the car, track and setup had not changed.

That just means you're driving them at the same pace. Drive harder until you're exploring the limits of traction, not where you think the limit is, and you'll see vastly different results in grip.

Think back to your experience, and as yourself, how often were the tires screaming? Both tires make noise at the edge of traction.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That just means you're driving them at the same pace. Drive harder until you're exploring the limits of traction, not where you think the limit is, and you'll see vastly different results in grip.

Think back to your experience, and as yourself, how often were the tires screaming? Both tires make noise at the edge of traction.

:roll eyes:

Despite your assumptions, I have a good idea where the limits of traction are and both tires were being utilized to their limits. And given I’ve not seen anyone get close to my times at this particular track without much grippier tires or a lot more power in a twin, I’m confident that I’m doing a good job of getting the most out of them.

There’s also a Tire Rack test backing this up.

[juliog]

RE71R are easily 2-3 seconds faster than RS4 (or NT01/RC1!) on a 2 minute course. RS4 aren't particularly fast among the current crop of 200 treadwear tires. RS4 have a wider window to put down hot laps than RE71R. This is all common knowledge... anyone arguing to the contrary needs more seat time across a variety of tire compounds

I put the first 5 heat cycles on Mike's tires. I purchased the tires exclusively to *easily* achieve the naturally aspirated 86/BRZ record at Buttonwillow Raceway Park, which I did with a lap time of 1:59.5. I still left some time on the table..

The faster 86/S2000 guys in SoCal usually thrash RE71Rs in less than 3 track days. They're fast tires but expensive, and also not that fun for HPDE because after 2 hot laps they over heat and you're better off ending the session.

[14stu]

Looks like we've reached a consensus; the RS4 is slower but last longer and is more heat tolerant which makes it better for non-competitive lapping, while the RE71 is faster but wears more quickly and is less heat tolerant.

For a time trial go with the RE71 and for a HPDE go with the RS4.

The RE71 works on track, so if you have to have a set for autox you can use it on the track but with an aggressive driver you'll get considerable wear. If you autocross with an RS4 you will be at a disadvantage.

[mav1178]

just want to point out that the last page+ of posts did nothing to address my question for OP: why do you want to change to a "faster" tire? have you already maxed out RS3/RS4 as far as usage is concerned, or do you want to just slap on stickier tires to seemingly go faster with zero improvement in skill?

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My experience is that RS4’s are just as fast as RE71R’s but have much, much better wear. Not scientific A to B testing, but temps were pretty similar for when I ran my best times on each tire and the car, track and setup had not changed.

This has not been the case here in CA. RE71R is seconds faster. It is called a cheater tire for a reason.

[MisterSheep]

Originally Posted by mav1178

just want to point out that the last page+ of posts did nothing to address my question for OP: why do you want to change to a "faster" tire? have you already maxed out RS3/RS4 as far as usage is concerned, or do you want to just slap on stickier tires to seemingly go faster with zero improvement in skill?

Look dude, I'm just looking into different tires because I'd like to try out different tires. Not "better" tires per say. Just trying to get everyone else's opinion on other tires.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

RE71R is seconds faster. It is called a cheater tire for a reason.

Because amateur motorsports is full of people who can't accept change.

I witnessed another "cheater tire" scandal 10 years ago, lots of bitterness and accusations then as there are surrounding the Bridgestone's. How does that series cope 10 years later? That tire is now the spec tire. Bridgestone and BFG made a great tire for a single purpose, they succeeded, get over it.