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Old 10-26-2014, 02:44 AM   #1
Chalk
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Octane Booster Mix Advice?

Hi,

So I'm pretty new here and to the FR-S, okay that isn't true..I lurked here for at least a year first, only had it since June and all I've changed on the car is the clutch pedal adjustment, scraped a little paint off of it, and put this sweet Delorean sticker my friend made on the dash..for the added hp of course.

My dilemma is, if I remember the manual correctly..this car is supposed to run on 93 octane. Seeing as I can't keep myself at a reasonable pace in anything with wheels (I ran my '98 ford escort on 91 to avoid knock revving constantly at redline) but in the SF Bay..93 isn't really a thing.

I've been doing all this reading about different fuels and this and that and engines and technologies and 50+ hours on wiki and eventually it occured to me, wow, I should really run the car on at least the minimum design octane the way I drive it.

So I'm thinking the classic toluene or xylene(m?) 100oz, 25oz mineral spirits (kerosene, diesel), 3oz transmission fluid..non atf (mmo?)

I'm avoiding the easy alcohol mixtures as this isn't a flex fuel vehicle and gas in cali already has 10% ethanol wearing on the gaskets/hoses, similarly avoiding the acetone claims for that reason. I'm thinking xylene instead of toluene because I read that toluene can cause problems at high revs because it burns too slow, and it's already in gas in a higher concentration than xylene and I don't want to get too much of any one solvent going on here. Also, m-xylene? is supposed to have a higher octane which would help with the making this less difficult to do part (last paragraph)

Which brings me to the mineral spirits, or cleaning section..these are recommend over and over in the mix, but seeing as there are already tons of solvents involved, is this really in the best interest of reliability in the vehicle, does it really need that added cleaning on top of adding 100oz if solvents to fuel with solvents in it to start with?

I'm looking to just dump 1 gal of mix into each tank at the pump to approximate 93 when filling it with 91, in the best interest of the vehicle, please any thoughts, recommendation, research, trials and errors.

I'm posting in DIY because there didn't seem to be section elsewhere for fuel and I know for a fact there are a lot of other FT86's running around in my area that could benefit should this be the route to go, so it could be a useful DIY. Also..I did search before posting..didn't find anything, hope this isn't a dupe.
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Old 10-26-2014, 03:00 AM   #2
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with running 91 octane. 93 is preferred where 91 is minimum. I have the same problem here in Maine, I am just picky about what gas stations I go to.
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:00 AM   #3
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I don't know where to begin. Run it on 91 octane gas from a quality gas station. I'm thinking the only downside is slightly less timing advance at WOT.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalk View Post
Hi,

So I'm pretty new here and to the FR-S, okay that isn't true..I lurked here for at least a year first, only had it since June and all I've changed on the car is the clutch pedal adjustment, scraped a little paint off of it, and put this sweet Delorean sticker my friend made on the dash..for the added hp of course.

My dilemma is, if I remember the manual correctly..this car is supposed to run on 93 octane. Seeing as I can't keep myself at a reasonable pace in anything with wheels (I ran my '98 ford escort on 91 to avoid knock revving constantly at redline) but in the SF Bay..93 isn't really a thing.

I've been doing all this reading about different fuels and this and that and engines and technologies and 50+ hours on wiki and eventually it occured to me, wow, I should really run the car on at least the minimum design octane the way I drive it.

So I'm thinking the classic toluene or xylene(m?) 100oz, 25oz mineral spirits (kerosene, diesel), 3oz transmission fluid..non atf (mmo?)

I'm avoiding the easy alcohol mixtures as this isn't a flex fuel vehicle and gas in cali already has 10% ethanol wearing on the gaskets/hoses, similarly avoiding the acetone claims for that reason. I'm thinking xylene instead of toluene because I read that toluene can cause problems at high revs because it burns too slow, and it's already in gas in a higher concentration than xylene and I don't want to get too much of any one solvent going on here. Also, m-xylene? is supposed to have a higher octane which would help with the making this less difficult to do part (last paragraph)

Which brings me to the mineral spirits, or cleaning section..these are recommend over and over in the mix, but seeing as there are already tons of solvents involved, is this really in the best interest of reliability in the vehicle, does it really need that added cleaning on top of adding 100oz if solvents to fuel with solvents in it to start with?

I'm looking to just dump 1 gal of mix into each tank at the pump to approximate 93 when filling it with 91, in the best interest of the vehicle, please any thoughts, recommendation, research, trials and errors.

I'm posting in DIY because there didn't seem to be section elsewhere for fuel and I know for a fact there are a lot of other FT86's running around in my area that could benefit should this be the route to go, so it could be a useful DIY. Also..I did search before posting..didn't find anything, hope this isn't a dupe.
Google Torco, no fouling of plugs or cats, racers use it.



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Old 10-26-2014, 05:51 PM   #5
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In another thread I did find out that there are two places within a half hour to an hours drive that I can get 93-100..however that doesn't work well being that they are both in the wrong direction for my daily driving. Fortunately they are in a good location for two of my preferred twisties and reasonable location for one other. Leaving the remaining three high and dry.

I also found testimonials that 93 did make a very noticeable difference over 91 in a BRZ. I think the issue here being that yes, you can safely run the car on 91..no you can't WOT every day on your way home..sometimes twice a day on 91.

I'm really hoping to use something both less detrimental to the car and less detrimental to the environment..plus slightly more legal. Torco and Lucas Oil additives, first off aren't really octane boosters at all, they are anti-knock additives. They use MMT which builds up on your plugs, on your O2 sensors, and in your cat..although some have claimed this doesn't cause them any issues..are not street legal and were banned from gas for emissions.

Now, I obviously didn't buy this car to protect the environment, but what would be a good solution for the track..or for a racecar..isn't necessarily a good solution for a daily driver.

I do appreciate the input though, and having researched your opinions on this I now know a lot that I was completely ignorant to a couple of hours ago (basically I don't know how to use the thanks function for your posts)
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:09 PM   #6
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FYI, racing fuel, 100 octane, is not legal to be used on the street and they usually won't sell to you.
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:45 PM   #7
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You can get 100 at Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway no problem.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalk View Post
In another thread I did find out that there are two places within a half hour to an hours drive that I can get 93-100..however that doesn't work well being that they are both in the wrong direction for my daily driving. Fortunately they are in a good location for two of my preferred twisties and reasonable location for one other. Leaving the remaining three high and dry.

I also found testimonials that 93 did make a very noticeable difference over 91 in a BRZ. I think the issue here being that yes, you can safely run the car on 91..no you can't WOT every day on your way home..sometimes twice a day on 91.

I'm really hoping to use something both less detrimental to the car and less detrimental to the environment..plus slightly more legal. Torco and Lucas Oil additives, first off aren't really octane boosters at all, they are anti-knock additives. They use MMT which builds up on your plugs, on your O2 sensors, and in your cat..although some have claimed this doesn't cause them any issues..are not street legal and were banned from gas for emissions.

Now, I obviously didn't buy this car to protect the environment, but what would be a good solution for the track..or for a racecar..isn't necessarily a good solution for a daily driver.

I do appreciate the input though, and having researched your opinions on this I now know a lot that I was completely ignorant to a couple of hours ago (basically I don't know how to use the thanks function for your posts)
Research and practice shows that Torco only changes normal black carbon deposits to an orange brown colour.
NO fouling on my cats or plugs .

I have used it with no problems for years.



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Old 10-28-2014, 01:12 PM   #9
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Sears Point is actually nicely in line with another favorite road of mine, so that's perfect, thank you. Down to two.

I don't really intend to run 100 octane, more 93, that's not cheap stuff. Just want to have the car running the way it's supposed to is all since I'm always pushing it.

There seems to be a big debate everywhere I look about whether it is or isn't safe to use Torco, I can see which side of the fence you land on..but to me that's beside the point, because it's also pretty expensive and bad for emissions in the carcinogen way..which I have a moral issue with for a daily driver. Now if this was a weekend car..I wouldn't still be trying to find a way I'm more comfortable with.

Does anyone have any experience with mixing their own, or any booster based on aromatics that will raise octane 20(2) points for not too much? Really I'm thinking my solution would work, I was just hoping for someone experienced to give a greenlight..but if anyone knows how to get ahold of m-xylene/xylol at a decent price, please, I beg of you, share your knowledge.
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Old 10-28-2014, 01:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retoocs View Post
FYI, racing fuel, 100 octane, is not legal to be used on the street and they usually won't sell to you.
So full of BS....
It IS legal, and if they 'wont sell it', why is it 'for sale'?

I run only 91, rev the crap out of my car, and logs show very minimal knock correction.
However I AM at >5000 ft atl. all of the time.
That makes a difference.
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Old 10-28-2014, 01:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalk View Post
Sears Point is actually nicely in line with another favorite road of mine, so that's perfect, thank you. Down to two.

I don't really intend to run 100 octane, more 93, that's not cheap stuff. Just want to have the car running the way it's supposed to is all since I'm always pushing it.

There seems to be a big debate everywhere I look about whether it is or isn't safe to use Torco, I can see which side of the fence you land on..but to me that's beside the point, because it's also pretty expensive and bad for emissions in the carcinogen way..which I have a moral issue with for a daily driver. Now if this was a weekend car..I wouldn't still be trying to find a way I'm more comfortable with.

Does anyone have any experience with mixing their own, or any booster based on aromatics that will raise octane 20(2) points for not too much? Really I'm thinking my solution would work, I was just hoping for someone experienced to give a greenlight..but if anyone knows how to get ahold of m-xylene/xylol at a decent price, please, I beg of you, share your knowledge.
When I am forced to use Shell 91 with my 93 tune, my OFT shows knock, with TORCO, it shows the same as 93 octane (10 + ounces of Torco).

When I get 93 it has corn likker in it (nothing available ethanol free), but it seems to perform well.

When I can afford it, I use Shell 91, with 1 gallon of race gas which brings the tank up to over 93 octane (roughly 94 to 97 depending on the octane of the race gas), which is my preferred set up, as that seems to make the most ponies.



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Old 10-28-2014, 07:16 PM   #12
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I'm also almost always below 5000 ft so that is good information to have.


Quote:
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When I can afford it, I use Shell 91, with 1 gallon of race gas which brings the tank up to over 93 octane (roughly 94 to 97 depending on the octane of the race gas), which is my preferred set up, as that seems to make the most ponies.
What octane rating is the race gas you use? I did a little math and I figured out that if I put 3 gallons of 100 octane in, then 10.5 gallons of 91 the fuel would have a minimum rating of 93 flat. Also, do you know the composition of the race gas you use?
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:01 PM   #13
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So full of BS....
It IS legal, and if they 'wont sell it', why is it 'for sale'?
Not BS. OP is in California. Racing fuel is illegal to use for a street vehicle being operated on the streets. If you pull up to a station with race fuel, they will not let you put it into your registered street vehicle. There are some high octane fuel that meets CARB requirements and is street legal, but this stuff isn't as good since it has all the other crap added.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/advs/advs397.pdf
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:37 PM   #14
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As posted above Torco Accelerator solves all of this. When I was on regular gas, it was a godsend.
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