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Old 06-06-2018, 09:40 PM   #29
extrashaky
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....yeaahhh. Not sure where 13.5k dropped in, but I find them selling and being advertised for 15k pretty regularly.
$13.5K came from the listings I reviewed in the search. That seemed to be the current natural bottom limit, still well within the mid-teens. Only one low-teen listing found, and even that wasn't "pennies on the dollar." It still retained more than 30% of its original value. The overwhelming majority were still above half their original value, above where they should be.

BTW, "pennies on the dollar" means less than 10%. Once you go above 10%, you're into dimes. Most of our cars are still into the Kennedys.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:42 PM   #30
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There's nothing to compare, because those cars don't exist. I took a few minutes to search CL and Autotempest (which also searches Cars.com and Ebay) within 300 miles of Elkhart to make sure I included your local area. I found a grand total of ONE BRZ with a clean title below $13.5K. There were two more below $10K in Chicago, but one was wrecked and the other had a rebuilt title. There were a couple at $13.5K, but the overwhelming majority of the BRZ listings were higher.

So all those BRZs you claim are being sold for low teens don't seem to exist, and the value of this car hasn't tanked. It's still tracking right along a bit higher than what should be expected for a used car.
It's not what they are listed for, it's what they sell for. You don't know that from the listings. They normally sell for a couple of thousand less than listed. Only collector cars sell at the listing price.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:56 PM   #31
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$13.5K came from the listings I reviewed in the search. That seemed to be the current natural bottom limit, still well within the mid-teens. Only one low-teen listing found, and even that wasn't "pennies on the dollar." It still retained more than 30% of its original value. The overwhelming majority were still above half their original value, above where they should be.

BTW, "pennies on the dollar" means less than 10%. Once you go above 10%, you're into dimes. Most of our cars are still into the Kennedys.
way to take a common saying extremely literally.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:27 PM   #32
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$13.5K came from the listings I reviewed in the search. That seemed to be the current natural bottom limit, still well within the mid-teens. Only one low-teen listing found, and even that wasn't "pennies on the dollar." It still retained more than 30% of its original value. The overwhelming majority were still above half their original value, above where they should be.

BTW, "pennies on the dollar" means less than 10%. Once you go above 10%, you're into dimes. Most of our cars are still into the Kennedys.
Regardless, still not stellar especially compared to the WRX which is made by the same same company and costs almost as much new. WRX resale value is pretty nuts.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:28 PM   #33
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It's not what they are listed for, it's what they sell for. You don't know that from the listings.
Sure, so you have to go by the averages KBB and Edmunds calculate from their data from various sources. And their calculations bear out that the cars are still selling for higher than the average depreciation curve for similarly aged used cars.

Summerwolf said that "you see these cars going regularly for low teens," but he can't produce any examples of that happening. If it were as rampant as he said, I would expect to be able to find at least a few of those miraculously low listings. I couldn't. Because they are imaginary.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:36 PM   #34
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Sure, so you have to go by the averages KBB and Edmunds calculate from their data from various sources. And their calculations bear out that the cars are still selling for higher than the average depreciation curve for similarly aged used cars.

Summerwolf said that "you see these cars going regularly for low teens," but he can't produce any examples of that happening. If it were as rampant as he said, I would expect to be able to find at least a few of those miraculously low listings. I couldn't. Because they are imaginary.
You used 13.5k yourself. You're saying that these cars don't regularly sell below 15k?
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:42 PM   #35
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Regardless, still not stellar especially compared to the WRX which is made by the same same company as costs almost as much new. WRX resale value makes no sense to me.
A 2014 Limited WRX was a $35K car. KBB shows the average private party sale value now at $18K. That's 43% of its original value.

A 2014 Limited BRZ was about a $27K car. Now KBB says it's selling for $14K, or 52% of its original value.

So the BRZ is holding its value BETTER than the WRX, not worse.

That's really to be expected. A WRX is just a dressed up Impreza. There's no reason to expect a dumpy econobox like an Impreza to outperform the average depreciation curve.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:46 PM   #36
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You used 13.5k yourself. You're saying that these cars don't regularly sell below 15k?
I didn't say that.

Hey, where are all those $11K and $12K cars you claimed were for sale? You're seriously going to keep arguing this when you know you can't back it up?
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:02 PM   #37
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I didn't say that.

Hey, where are all those $11K and $12K cars you claimed were for sale? You're seriously going to keep arguing this when you know you can't back it up?
They're around. Usually 80k+ on the odometer and 2013. More of those listing above $13k.

I see far more very overpriced listings. I have no idea how those turn out.

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Old 06-07-2018, 12:54 AM   #38
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I tried to sell my '13 for a year or so and just gave up. Had like one or two people send PM's on here but they didn't follow up with anything. No non-scam responses from autotrader or craigslist.

My car has 59k on it now (54 or something when I listed it)... low mileage, tasteful mods, totally stock engine/gearbox, etc. About $35k invested. I think I could move it within a few weeks if I listed it for like $15k, but it's just not worth it to me to sell the car for so little money. It's such a nice car to drive-- what would you buy with your $15k that would be more fun (and wouldn't require further investment to refresh)? Fuck all, is what. Might as well just hang on to it, keep it clean, and enjoy having one of the last simple / lightweight sportscars ever made. Plus it's a great daily driver-- good on gas, basically no maintenance required beyond fluid changes... doesn't eat brakes or big, expensive tyres... good car.
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:50 AM   #39
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Sure, so you have to go by the averages KBB and Edmunds calculate from their data from various sources. And their calculations bear out that the cars are still selling for higher than the average depreciation curve for similarly aged used cars.
The KBB/Edmund's data is from dealers only -- not private transactions. The dealers they use are major dealers who guarantee your purchase. People are willing to pay a premium when they buy from a major dealer. Remember that these services sell their primarily to dealers so they tailor their data to them. Private sellers can't get what dealers get -- not only because of guarantees they provide, but because they offer financing. Financing allows dealers to ask for a higher price and also allows them to get added profit by providing the financing. Remember that most large dealers are required to inspect the used cars they sell as part of their state license to sell those cars. So I repeat, the averages you see on KBB are much higher than you can get from a private sale.
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:25 AM   #40
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I didn't say that.

Hey, where are all those $11K and $12K cars you claimed were for sale? You're seriously going to keep arguing this when you know you can't back it up?
Wtf on earth did I claim to see a plethora of 11 and 12k cars that are cleanly titled????? 11 and 12 cant even be construed as "low teens."
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:50 AM   #41
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The KBB/Edmund's data is from dealers only -- not private transactions. The dealers they use are major dealers who guarantee your purchase. People are willing to pay a premium when they buy from a major dealer. Remember that these services sell their primarily to dealers so they tailor their data to them. Private sellers can't get what dealers get -- not only because of guarantees they provide, but because they offer financing. Financing allows dealers to ask for a higher price and also allows them to get added profit by providing the financing. Remember that most large dealers are required to inspect the used cars they sell as part of their state license to sell those cars. So I repeat, the averages you see on KBB are much higher than you can get from a private sale.
Wrong

How are Kelley Blue Book Values Established?
Beginning with the basic new vehicle information from the manufacturer, each and every day, Kelley Blue Book receives real-world new car prices and used car prices from actual transaction information. The following sources make up the bulk of a typical year in used car purchase information and feed the base of data our experts analyze:

Wholesale Auctions
Open exclusively to the trade, representatives from dealerships and wholesalers bring vehicles to the auction to trade or sell and they purchase other vehicles they think will sell at their store. Auctions receive their vehicles from dealers, rental agencies, fleet owners, off-lease vehicles owned by financial institutions and manufacturers' demos and promotional vehicles.
Kelley Blue Book representatives audit these auctions on a regular basis to gather a better understanding of what the highest possible "actual cash value" of a given used vehicle will bring at auction.

Independent Dealers
These are the dealerships you see every day that are selling used vehicles only. These dealers sell used vehicles to auctions, consumers and wholesalers.
Franchised Dealers
These are specifically branded new car dealerships authorized by the respective manufacturer such as Honda, Ford, etc. These dealers sell used vehicles to both auctions and consumers.
Rental & Fleet
Rental fleets usually send their cars to auction after one year of service, but have extended that usage in recent years.
Original Equipment Manufacturers (O.E.M.s)
The manufacturers (such as Honda, Ford, etc.), bring used vehicles to auction after they have utilized them as employee cars, promotions or other company distribution.
Financial Institution Lessors
When you lease a car, the bank owns it and you rent the use of the vehicle. After the term of the lease is complete, these pre-owned vehicles are either sold back to the lessee or directly to a dealer at auction. Financial institutions also trade and sell repossessed cars and trucks.
Consumer Private Party Transactions
Kelley Blue Book tracks consumer sale prices each year.

How are the Final Values Determined?
Used values are determined by a proprietary editorial process. This process starts with a thorough analysis of all collected data along with historical trends, current economic conditions, industry developments, seasonality and location. The resulting values reflect the most current representation of a changing marketplace and are therefore relied upon by a variety of leading organizations as well as the average consumer.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:25 AM   #42
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A 2014 Limited WRX was a $35K car. KBB shows the average private party sale value now at $18K. That's 43% of its original value.
Errrr, do you have any proof that a 2014 Limited WRX was 35k? That's STi territory. I can't really imagine that people were paying that kind of money for a WRX.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.motor...mp-393115/amp/

This article lists the 2014 limited at 30K. Using that number, the WRX holds it's value better, which seems to match with the real market.
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