suspension question

[Bruninho8]

I want to lower the car when i get one, but i also plan to drift recreationally.
Are coilovers necessary or should i just get lowering springs??

Sorry im new to the whole Tuning world. im only 17 :/

[Texas BRZ]

This might not be the answer you're looking for, but I would thoroughly drive and understand the car before you invest in any modifications to the suspension... I don't know how much experience you have in high-performance driving, or drifting (as you show interest in)... But this is the same advice I'd apply on myself, as well.

After some seat time and thorough understanding of the car has gone by... Then perhaps it would be the appropriate time to take the next step if / when you're ready.

Feel free to correct me if I've mistaken in providing my opinion.

[Bruninho8]

o yea trust me im not planning on buying it when i first get the car. I plan to get extremely comfortable driving the car before i do anything crazy with mods. I was just asking for future reference. and to answer your doubt i have ZERO experience with high-performance driving haha.

Thanks for the reply btw

[ultra]

Originally Posted by Bruninho8

and to answer your doubt i have ZERO experience with high-performance driving haha.

Thanks for the reply btw

Fix that bit first (autoX, HPDEs, drift days) then worry about changing the car.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by ultra

Fix that bit first (autoX, HPDEs, drift days) then worry about changing the car.

This.

Suspension mods always have trade-offs. If you modify the suspension before you really learn how to handle the car, you'll pick up bad habits as you try to work around the trade-offs you introduced to the car.

If you want to customize the car so it's more "you" (all of us want to do that) here's a list of stuff that won't change the core of what the car is:

Cat-back exhaust: Gives you good sound and better looks at the tail of the car. If you don't care about sound, you can swap the tips very easily for a better look. (This is also a great way to sneak in some weight reduction too.)

Wheels: To keep you in SCCA stock class in AutoX, you can't change the rims size too much. Go with a 17x7 with an offset between +42 and +54 (preferably closer to +42). Or you could use your stock wheels for racing and get whatever wheel you want for day-to-day use. That said, in all reality, noone's going to care if you race in stock class with bigger wheels/tires unless you start ripping off top times. So don't worry about it too much.

Tires: The stock tires are not that good for getting fast times. But they are excellent at teaching you how to balance the car and what to do when the car begins to slide. If you want stickier tires to race with and you're using stock width wheels, go with an Extreme Performance tire in the stock size. Those types of tires are built much wider than normal for their size. There's a picture here somewhere of a 215 width Hankook R-S3 next to the stock 215 width tire and the new tire was about an inch wider. You'll get great grip, fatter tires, and maintain your gearing with a 215/45-17 R-S3 or similar tire.

Drop-in filter: Doesn't do much, but it's just "one of those things" to do. Don't do a whole intake, as it could bump you to a higher class.

Visual mods: Window tint, LED lights, etc won't bump you to a higher class. Interior mods also are free as long as you're not gutting the car.

Harness belts: Always good to have to help you concentrate on driving, not keeping yourself in your seat (not as big of a deal in the BRZ/FR-S). As long as they connect to the stock seat belt locations, you're good.

Stickers: If they're your thing, have fun.

The trick is to learn the car first. Once you've got some seat-time and you're really familiar on how the car behaves, then you can decide how you want to modify the suspension/power. Also, by that time, you'll know what form of racing you want to pursue which will help you make your choices.

This car is VERY capable in stock form, even with the stock tires. Learn to drive it and it'll reward you with little money invested.

[fatoni]

just to reiterate what is being said: dont ask what modifications you should get. drive the car and dont change anything until you figure out what you dont like abou it. go to a track day and let an instructor drive the car. you probably dont need anything until you can get those kinda lap times regularly

[TuxedoCartman]

I gotta ask... why do you want to lower the car? Is it just for looks? If so, there's a great thread here that you should read.

[Bruninho8]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I gotta ask... why do you want to lower the car? Is it just for looks? If so, there's a great thread here that you should read.

Well for looks, and ( like i said im a total noob when it comes to tuning) i heard that if i try to drift stock ill completely screw up the alignment of the car and a way to avoid that would be coilovers (thats what i was told).


@Draco-REX: thanks for the reply that list definitely helps. Like i said before suspension was gonna be one of the last things i was gonna do. I'm planning on changing the exhaust then wheels and then some little exterior and interior mods nothing crazy.


and yea im deff going to get some track days in so i can get extremely comfortable with the car.

Thanks again for all the replies

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by Bruninho8

Well for looks, and ( like i said im a total noob when it comes to tuning) i heard that if i try to drift stock ill completely screw up the alignment of the car and a way to avoid that would be coilovers (thats what i was told).
and yea im deff going to get some track days in so i can get extremely comfortable with the car.

No, whoever told you that is an idiot. Well, unless you drift the car into curbs and other various immovable objects, they have a tendency to knock wheels out of alignment, hehe... But coilovers will not fix that. What he may have been referring to, is stock suspension may be too soft for aggressive drifting or racing, which can allow the wheels' alignments to flex into undesirable positive (outward) angles. You will not however, "screw up" the alignment on stock suspension, that's absurd.

Competition drift cars have abnormally stiff suspension, and their alignment makes the car very awkward to drive until it's sideways. Just something to think about.

Lowering any car can negatively affect it's "roll center" (virtual longitudinal axis around which the car leans left or right). This has some to do with center of gravity, and more to do with suspension geometry. A too-low roll center making it feel very tippy like a minivan, even if it's been lowered (this actually makes the problem worse).

All of the posters above gave advice that is spot on; do a lot of track days and HDPE events and learn the car. Stay humble, be eager to learn, and check the ego EVERY time you get into the car.

Edit:
After doing a track event or two, you may find you want a second set of wheels for track tires. Typical first upgrades for tracked cars are brake fluid, brake pads, and track tires.

[Bruninho8]

o ok sounds good then! what are HDPE events? is that the same thing as an autox?
@wheelhaus: Lowering any car can negatively affect it's "roll center" (virtual longitudinal axis around which the car leans left or right). This has some to do with center of gravity, and more to do with suspension geometry. A too-low roll center making it feel very tippy like a minivan, even if it's been lowered (this actually makes the problem worse).
would a way to counter this effect your talking about, be to get a sway bar? or no?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Bruninho8

o ok sounds good then! what are HDPE events? is that the same thing as an autox?
@wheelhaus: Lowering any car can negatively affect it's "roll center" (virtual longitudinal axis around which the car leans left or right). This has some to do with center of gravity, and more to do with suspension geometry. A too-low roll center making it feel very tippy like a minivan, even if it's been lowered (this actually makes the problem worse).
would a way to counter this effect your talking about, be to get a sway bar? or no?

high performance driving events. you go to a track and drive as fast as you can but its not wheel to wheel racing.

a sway bar wont counter that. i mean it will but its not the ideal solution. thats kinda like saying adding power is the solution to the car being too heavy. the car is going to be its fastest when it is running the softest suspension possible to keep the suspension in the desired travel. when you drop a car, you drop the roll center faster than you drop the cog so the roll is increased. too big a sway bar is a bad thing as you really want your suspension to be as independant as possible.

[JoeBoxer]

Good advice in this thread for everybody, not just a 17 year old. I am almost scared to do too much to the suspension, to me it handles great as is.

but i'm still going to...

[Racecomp Engineering]

This thread is going better than expected...great advice in here!

To the OP...read read read! Then read some more. Do a lot of research and always question what you read. Not everything you read on the internet is true. Find some suspension books. All while driving the car stock and having a damn good time (safely). I highly recommend autocrossing as a good/safe/fun way to learn how to drive fast and control the car. It also helps you feel what could make the car better.

How To Make Your Car Handle by Fred Puhn is a good easy start...a little old but still great info. Don't worry if you get overwhelmed...suspension stuff is complicated but if something is confusing, put the book down and come back to it later.

- Andrew

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

high performance driving events. you go to a track and drive as fast as you can but its not wheel to wheel racing.

To add to this, NASA (National Auto Sports Association) is one organization that puts on HPDE events. Their track days are typically split into 5 groups, each requiring instructor sign-off to advance to the next group. Each group gets multiple sessions in a day, but they don't share the track simultaneously. Here's a quick 30 second generic overview:

Group 1 is for drivers new to the sport, or new to track driving. You get instructional classes, and multiple track sessions with an instructor. Focus is on learning basic track etiquette and navigation, no passing allowed.

Group 2 also includes instruction but you can go solo. The focus gets more into braking zones and developing a line, speed, and consistency. Passing is allowed, but in designated zones only (usually the main straights or other safe areas).

Group 3 is more fun, you're allowed to be out on your own with lap timer transponders. Focus is on building speed and consistency, passing restrictions are relaxed, but usually still designated to safe zones. This prevents "rubbin's racin'" and being dive-bomb passed in a tight corner from a more experienced driver. This is where a lot of drivers prefer to stay if they have nice street cars.

Group 4 is basically TT (Time Trial) practice. You're out there under what are essentially race conditions, with others practicing for time trial sessions (often in fully race-prepped cars). Be ready for very aggressive drivers, although good manners are still encouraged.

Group 5 is the TT group. This is technically a separate event, but may be scheduled during HPDE days. These guys are racing balls-out to get the fastest laps possible. They're not racing for position, just lap times.

Being a good driver is something that you will never perfect, but you can always improve upon!