P0016 on a 60k mile car

[Jmonty]

Originally Posted by alxtheoreo

This is to replace the timing chain, tensioners & cam gears.

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Will they replace the ECU?

[kinghurl]

This could be another surprise. The procedure calls for a step by step set of changes and testing. If the VVT learning values don't change fast enough after that, they'll recommend the ecu change as a last step. I resisted initially but power was not quite back to normal as it still showed the pending code which it would until the ecu relearned the new values. That is a SLOW SLOW(like 5K miles). Until then, the pending code will cause the cams to be set at a fixed point midway in their range. The slow adaptation of the ecu is the reason for it needing to be changed, sadly.

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[alxtheoreo]

Originally Posted by Jmonty

Will they replace the ECU?

I don't recall the dealership saying that. Plus, when I called the closest tuner shops, they didn't mention it either.

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[alxtheoreo]

Update: I filed a complaint with Toyota Motor Company yesterday, and they're investigating.

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[EigenGuy]

My nightmare continues...

Quick summary: 2013 BRZ with JR supercharger showing P0018 and P0016. Already completed new OCVs, ECM, sensors, and oil flushes. Decided to replace the intake cam sprockets.

As expected, upon removing both intake sprockets the plate that retains the internal VVT spring fell right out. Looking at it closely, Subaru's ingenious idea to retain this plate was to simply peen over in two spots. This is clearly an insufficient design. Retention of this plate needs to be integral or cap-screwed in.

Upon putting everything back together per the service manual, I still must have screwed up the timing because the engine starts but runs really rough. I shut it down after 3-4 seconds. Question for rusty959, I spent a significant amount of time ensuring the blue chain lined up with the crank key and the pink chains lined up with the sprocket indicators. I am 100% sure everything was right. I rolled the engine over a few times by hand to make sure there was no interference. Is there any scenario where something could be off?

Lastly, I haven't changed the ECM yet. As discussed, I'm assuming the codes are still going to be burned in even after getting all the mechanical stuff straightened out. I just want to prove this first.

Lessons learned for me:
1.) Never buy a vehicle within two years of it's first release.
2.) Definitely never modify a vehicle inside of warranty.
3.) I'll never buy another Subaru.
4.) From what I've read, our cars are susceptible to these CELs while using JDL UEL headers. Not sure why but it seems to be a common theme.
5.) Be careful messing with the advance on the intake sprockets (I first got the codes when data logging for a Delicious tune). Root cause in my mind is due to excessive oil pressure on the peened in retention plates. This pressure must be pushing the retention plates out.
6.) It might be good insurance to change oil filters more frequently. And always use synthetic 0w-20, rather than 5w-30 (I always did but this is a common mistake).

[Ultramaroon]

The plate is only there to keep the assembly together until it has been installed. There is zero functional difference an intact assembly and one on which the plate has slipped.

I have a group of photos supporting this but slacked on the follow-through.

[alxtheoreo]

Originally Posted by EigenGuy

My nightmare continues...

Quick summary: 2013 BRZ with JR supercharger showing P0018 and P0016. Already completed new OCVs, ECM, sensors, and oil flushes. Decided to replace the intake cam sprockets.

As expected, upon removing both intake sprockets the plate that retains the internal VVT spring fell right out. Looking at it closely, Subaru's ingenious idea to retain this plate was to simply peen over in two spots. This is clearly an insufficient design. Retention of this plate needs to be integral or cap-screwed in.

Upon putting everything back together per the service manual, I still must have screwed up the timing because the engine starts but runs really rough. I shut it down after 3-4 seconds. Question for rusty959, I spent a significant amount of time ensuring the blue chain lined up with the crank key and the pink chains lined up with the sprocket indicators. I am 100% sure everything was right. I rolled the engine over a few times by hand to make sure there was no interference. Is there any scenario where something could be off?

Lastly, I haven't changed the ECM yet. As discussed, I'm assuming the codes are still going to be burned in even after getting all the mechanical stuff straightened out. I just want to prove this first.

Lessons learned for me:
1.) Never buy a vehicle within two years of it's first release.
2.) Definitely never modify a vehicle inside of warranty.
3.) I'll never buy another Subaru.
4.) From what I've read, our cars are susceptible to these CELs while using JDL UEL headers. Not sure why but it seems to be a common theme.
5.) Be careful messing with the advance on the intake sprockets (I first got the codes when data logging for a Delicious tune). Root cause in my mind is due to excessive oil pressure on the peened in retention plates. This pressure must be pushing the retention plates out.
6.) It might be good insurance to change oil filters more frequently. And always use synthetic 0w-20, rather than 5w-30 (I always did but this is a common mistake).

I feel you on points 1 & 3. This is my first Subaru (granted it's labled a Scion) and I would have never expect this big of a development & manufacturing oversight from both Subaru & Toyota. This engine was beat to hell on race tracks & the street for years, right? Something should have shown up then.

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[rusty959]

Originally Posted by EigenGuy

My nightmare continues...

Upon putting everything back together per the service manual, I still must have screwed up the timing because the engine starts but runs really rough. I shut it down after 3-4 seconds. Question for rusty959, I spent a significant amount of time ensuring the blue chain lined up with the crank key and the pink chains lined up with the sprocket indicators. I am 100% sure everything was right. I rolled the engine over a few times by hand to make sure there was no interference. Is there any scenario where something could be off?

The only think I'm thinking of in regard to the timing chain is ensuring the colored sections were centered over the marks on the cams and the correct side of the tab on the crank. Its possible to have the crank off by one but still over the tab. Any chance you checked the triangles on the cams at TDC to ensure they pointed together?

Mine ran super rough first start as well. I also had just installed a new ECU, which could have played into it. I seem to recall it backfiring once and something that sounded like detonation which concerned me a bit, obviously, but when I started it again it was fine. One thing to think about is you emptied the cam sprockets of oil, and they have more adjustablility than being off by one link would cause. No idea what happens to them as they fill back up.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

The plate is only there to keep the assembly together until it has been installed. There is zero functional difference an intact assembly and one on which the plate has slipped.

I have a group of photos supporting this but slacked on the follow-through.

I could be convinced this is the case, but it just concerns me that it could be something else. Just hope that something else is still within the cam sprockets and some of us aren't going to have this code pop back up again in 10k miles or something.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I could be convinced this is the case, but it just concerns me that it could be something else. Just hope that something else is still within the cam sprockets and some of us aren't going to have this code pop back up again in 10k miles or something.

I can dig out the pics and do some markups but basically, the difference between in, and out of place is valve-closed, and valve-more-closed.

[Teseo]

How a header mess up a harware part?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Teseo

How a header mess up a harware part?

Meh. It doesn't.

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Meh. It doesn't.

So thought i was on rethorical question thread, sorry uncle

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Teseo

So thought i was on rethorical question thread, sorry uncle