CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Ziontrapper]

Would you guys recommend the ALK, Pillowball, or stock bushing for a DD that gets tracked ~4 times a year? It seems like too much effort and wondering if the performance gains are worth in your opinion.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Ziontrapper

Would you guys recommend the ALK, Pillowball, or stock bushing for a DD that gets tracked ~4 times a year? It seems like too much effort and wondering if the performance gains are worth in your opinion.

Pillowballs in the front control arm feels AWESOME when driving hard.
Like really really good.

EDIT: it's not just "feel" though that is a big part of it. the OEM bushings do deflect during cornering and braking, and moreso with stickier tires. this results in dynamic alignment changes that do not help front grip.

But...yes there is some additional harshness.
And yes you have to be careful with salt/dirt if they're not protected.
And they're not an inexpensive modification.

So not the best choice for everyone.

The Whiteline ALK works well too with only a small change in harshness. I would recommend an experienced installer. In general I don't prefer a poly type bushing in that location, but it does work and I haven't seen any problems.

- Andrew

[churchx]

I had whiteline alk. Poly part separated from metal after 2 years of DD & several trackdays. IIRC it failing is not that uncommon. Replaced it with non eccentric bushing by energy suspension. Got extra wished camber/caster via other means/at other joints.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by churchx

I had whiteline alk. Poly part separated from metal after 2 years of DD & several trackdays. IIRC it failing is not that uncommon. Replaced it with non eccentric bushing by energy suspension. Got extra wished camber/caster via other means/at other joints.

Great! I have a set sitting right here waiting to get installed. Maybe i should shop for backups in case they dont give out before the 90-day.

Did they just slide out of the sleeve or did it tear? I can see it sliding outbbecause there is no flange to hold the urethane portion in place. Its only held in place with the adhesion of the liquid drying against the sleeve's wall. Not the smartest design for this location.. dang it.

[churchx]

You are free to install it, it probably won't fail for certain and immediately, but it's changes (slight extra caster and and stiffer less compliant joint) can be got in other ways. When it was time to change it, i decided to move it to my subjective list of not worth to buy 2nd replacement. Changes from it to handling didn't seem that worth it, not amounting to high noticeable impact or to something that i'd miss, or not reachable differently (eg. at topmount). But if you already have bought it, money already spent, you are free to install (at least if there are also other suspension goodies to install at same time and alignment will be redone anyway). Not something inherently bad or failing immediately.

[solidONE]

I wanted the caster. I figured if was going to change out the bushings, who not? This is the first time I've read about this particular part failing, though I've heard of other whiteline brand parts failing. A slight change or an extra step to make sure the sleeve does not allow the urethane to separate there likely would not be this problem

It is what it is.. finger crossed, I guess.

[Racecomp Engineering]

How long have your OEM control arm bushings lasted?

- Andrew

[solidONE]

I got 83K miles on them lol

Only did the diff carrier inserts about 3-4 months ago at 75K-ish. And my adjustable toe link has sphericals, but thats about it.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

How long have your OEM control arm bushings lasted?

- Andrew

How long are they expected to last? How long did your's last?

[churchx]

@solidONE: increased caster pros are stronger steering centering & some dynamic camber gains (thus less static camber needed) when turning wheel. If it's on prerestyle, especially if on sticky tires, more caster may also make overwork electric power steering which was prone for some to overheat (supposedly fixed on MY2017). Also topmounts like raceseng cascam or pedders mounts IIRC also are able to net some caster. While there is certain need for tracked twin for extra static negative camber, especially front, not sure that extra caster is that much needed.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by churchx

I had whiteline alk. Poly part separated from metal after 2 years of DD & several trackdays. IIRC it failing is not that uncommon. Replaced it with non eccentric bushing by energy suspension. Got extra wished camber/caster via other means/at other joints.

I had issues with the energy bushing and went to the whiteline

[churchx]

NoHaveMSG: well .. then if mine will fail, then i can always .. revert that bushing to stock. . But as it's non-eccentric and without those cutouts as on whiteline's, imho it should potentially last better.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by solidONE

..., who not?

I not.

Originally Posted by churchx

@solidONE: increased caster pros are stronger steering centering & some dynamic camber gains (thus less static camber needed) when turning wheel. If it's on prerestyle, especially if on sticky tires, more caster may also make overwork electric power steering which was prone for some to overheat (supposedly fixed on MY2017). Also topmounts like raceseng cascam or pedders mounts IIRC also are able to net some caster. While there is certain need for tracked twin for extra static negative camber, especially front, not sure that extra caster is that much needed.

I'm looking to maintain more dynamic negative camber too see if I will be happier staying at -2 camber for tire wear. my car is a daily car. Will get to adding more caster from other means but I want to be able to set the maximum amount of caster everywhere short of going with new control arms. There are also eccentric adjustable versions of the smaller FCA bushing by powerflex, I almost puller the trigger on that as well. They are no easy to find without having to airmail.

[churchx]

@solidONE: i use bushing from powerflex, but the other one, rear one of front LCA, for extra camber, not caster. It allowed me together with two camberbolt sets to get -3 front with stock topmounts. IIRC for rear bushing other poly bushing wendors all have non-eccentric bushings for that joint, (if) eccentric ones (eg. whiteline alc, powerflex's one and so on) - only front one, for caster.