follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-18-2015, 11:57 AM   #1
GSpeed
 
GSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Drives: 2015 BRZ
Location: Motorsport Ranch, TX
Posts: 619
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,181 Times in 362 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
0W20 vs. 5W30 Test Data

After our last test session, we weren't comfortable with the pressures and temperatures we were seeing on our unmodified car. We were running Motul 300V 0W20, and pressures were dropping below 5 psi in the pits at the end of the session. Oil temps as reported by the ECU were well over 270°.

For today's session, we switched to 300V 5W30 to see if we could keep the hot pressures a little higher. Here's a graph of what we found.



This shows psi per thousand RPM at varying oil temperatures. As we'd expect, the hotter the engine, the thinner the oil. This is normal. The red line is the "safe" goal of 10 psi/thousand RPM. That's not an especially scientific value, just something to compare as "good/bad."

RPM values below 1000 RPM were excluded to get data from only when the car was actually moving. We're not interested in heat soak right now, just on-track numbers.

The blue is the 0W20, and the yellow is the 5W30. You can see pretty clearly how the 5W30 helped keep oil pressures higher as temperatures increased, but didn't really give us abnormally high pressures at lower temperatures. Both tests were run on track here at the Motorsport Ranch, with ambient temperatures around 85-90F.

We may run 5W40 for the next oil change just to see if that moves hot pressures higher, but we think it's safe to say 5W30 is the right call for tracking a relatively unmodified car in hot climates.

Anyone have any similar experiences?

Update Aug. 30

Here's an updated graph showing the same data and processing, once an oil cooler is added to the system (green series). You can see the oil still behaves as it always has, but it's kept about 30° cooler.



Now that we've seen how well it works on our car, we'll definitely be pushing everyone to run an oil cooler if you're tracking your car in the summer. As much as we love doing engine swaps for people, we'd rather not do it because someone spun a bearing from letting their oil degrade.

Last edited by GSpeed; 08-30-2015 at 01:11 PM.
GSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 70 Users Say Thank You to GSpeed For This Useful Post:
2ZZW30 (01-27-2017), Anthony (01-30-2017), BatStig (07-18-2015), Bramick (12-20-2015), Briankbot (07-18-2015), Burning_Underwear (01-30-2017), cab33 (07-21-2015), cbryant514 (07-15-2017), ChrisD (01-25-2016), conehead (06-23-2021), DAEMANO (07-19-2015), DocWalt (05-06-2019), dp1 (07-19-2015), drewbot (08-22-2015), D_Thissen (07-26-2016), Fender0122 (08-24-2015), FeRS (03-08-2022), flippy (05-07-2022), Freedom (07-20-2015), FRS Johnny (07-19-2015), fstlane (07-20-2015), glamcem (08-23-2015), IBill4You (07-19-2015), Iceman (02-10-2017), J95 (10-27-2021), Jasper (04-27-2022), jayliu.jiayu@gamil.com (09-19-2019), jcw99 (08-08-2016), Jonsey (07-20-2015), JS + BRZ (08-30-2015), juliog (08-23-2015), kakacarrotcake (01-27-2017), killboy (01-07-2016), kosoku (07-19-2015), kster1 (07-19-2015), Lonewolf (07-19-2015), LostSalad (08-24-2015), MaximeT (01-23-2017), midnight23 (08-25-2015), mrk1 (08-24-2015), new2subaru (11-10-2019), nikitopo (07-19-2015), normancw (07-26-2015), NotSoJDM (01-26-2016), OND (01-25-2017), Pat (07-18-2015), pcuerpo (07-27-2015), philooo (09-15-2015), pitbull008 (04-26-2018), PWBRZ (07-19-2015), Rampage (05-06-2017), RehabJeff86 (07-18-2015), Scooby South (07-19-2015), Sgtfluffy16 (09-03-2019), shr133 (09-18-2016), Silky (03-14-2018), Sleepless (07-19-2015), solidONE (08-24-2015), Spuds (05-05-2017), sstfnv (07-18-2015), tato.valverde (01-26-2017), Teseo (08-13-2016), TMF (10-17-2017), Tristor (07-30-2018), tyrantcf (07-20-2015), Ultramaroon (07-19-2015), Uplink (03-22-2016), Valentino (08-23-2015), Viper8 (08-20-2018), WillRacer1jz (07-20-2015)
Old 07-18-2015, 12:09 PM   #2
Briankbot
Senior Member
 
Briankbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Colorado
Posts: 102
Thanks: 63
Thanked 34 Times in 22 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
That is very cool. Thanks for posting.

I don't get what the obsession with 0w-20 is around here. The copy of the factory service manual I have clearly states 5w-30 is an option along with 0w-20 and 5w-20.

Personally I use Castrol 0w-30 or Mobil1 0w-40 as they can be found locally.
Briankbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 01:37 PM   #3
GSpeed
 
GSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Drives: 2015 BRZ
Location: Motorsport Ranch, TX
Posts: 619
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,181 Times in 362 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Agreed. After seeing this data, we'll recommend 5W30 to all our customers.
GSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GSpeed For This Useful Post:
glamcem (08-23-2015), JS + BRZ (08-30-2015)
Old 07-18-2015, 03:38 PM   #4
philooo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 13' Scion FRS Track car
Location: miami
Posts: 417
Thanks: 76
Thanked 107 Times in 84 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
I was at homestead last week with 90f weather, very humid mind you.
Brand new Motul 300v 0w20 and i had temp max of 255f and my pressure on track was +-50... I assume psi

How does it relate to your psi/rpm ?
50psi at 5000rpm = 10psi/1000rpm ?
Am i correct ?

I have it on video but no data logger yet.
I am stock with mishimoto oil cooler and no Ac radiator
__________________
philooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 03:44 PM   #5
GSpeed
 
GSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Drives: 2015 BRZ
Location: Motorsport Ranch, TX
Posts: 619
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,181 Times in 362 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
That sounds about right to me. 255° seems about right for a track car on a hot day with an oil cooler, maybe a little on the hot side. You may gain a little bit by switching to 5W30, but you're probably fine for now. 50psi at 5000 RPM is better than we were able to get without an oil cooler.
GSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 10:20 PM   #6
RehabJeff86
Senior Member
 
RehabJeff86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 WhiteOut FR-S
Location: Dublin,CA
Posts: 969
Thanks: 899
Thanked 492 Times in 306 Posts
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
great data and I have been seeing similar at the track. Im currently using Motul 300V 15w50 for hot summer to keep adequate oil pressure above 30psi at redline with oil temp about 270F. Will be upgrading Oil Cooler hopefully to get oil temp down to 220-240F range and match it with 10w40. @CSG Mike @CSG David @mkivsoopra @sw20kosh @WoOosOn @BRZkitty
__________________

2013 Scion FR-S whiteout
2012 Porsche Panamera S carbon grey
2008 Range Rover Sport SS black - sold
2004 BMW M3 alpine wies - sold
RehabJeff86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RehabJeff86 For This Useful Post:
GSpeed (07-18-2015)
Old 07-18-2015, 10:39 PM   #7
Sideways
BRZZZZZ
 
Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: 2013 BRZ Whiteout
Location: The White North
Posts: 318
Thanks: 96
Thanked 160 Times in 111 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Definitely very good info thr. I was thinking of switching to 5w30 or 5w40 to prepare it to track days. Guess now I'm definitely going to heavier grade oil. Thanks for posting this info.
Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sideways For This Useful Post:
GSpeed (07-18-2015)
Old 07-19-2015, 12:16 AM   #8
olsonpg
Senior Member
 
olsonpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: BRZ. R34 GT-T
Location: Calgary
Posts: 762
Thanks: 737
Thanked 613 Times in 302 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Pardon the noobish question but synthetic or non ?
olsonpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 12:27 AM   #9
rice_classic
Senior Member
 
rice_classic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Nevermorange FRS
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,160
Thanks: 755
Thanked 4,200 Times in 1,803 Posts
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by olsonpg View Post
Pardon the noobish question but synthetic or non ?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Motul+300v
__________________
SCCA T4 - FRS
rice_classic is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rice_classic For This Useful Post:
Teseo (07-19-2015)
Old 07-19-2015, 12:29 AM   #10
olsonpg
Senior Member
 
olsonpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: BRZ. R34 GT-T
Location: Calgary
Posts: 762
Thanks: 737
Thanked 613 Times in 302 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rice_classic View Post
Lmao that made my night.
olsonpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 01:51 PM   #11
kster1
Senior Member
 
kster1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 316
Thanks: 229
Thanked 212 Times in 121 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Thanks for posting this. Since my car is naturally aspirated with an oil cooler, the highest oil temps I've seen at the track is 225F. Even at these "safe" temps, I'll keep running a mixture of 5w30/5w40 of Motul.
kster1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 02:43 PM   #12
Uncle Benz
Junior Member
 
Uncle Benz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: GT86
Location: England
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I moved to 5w30 Motul 300v and the HKS oil cooler. At a recent trackday at Bedford Autodrome on the GT circuit I saw a maximum oil temp of 107 degrees Celsius, and 18 psi at tickover when returning to paddock. I never pushed the car hard before the modifications because tales of sky-high oil temperatures and <10psi in the paddock scared me a bit. I'm now seeing oil pressures of 125psi when the engine is cold, and this worries me a little too, so I've taken to letting the engine warm a bit before moving off. I guess you can't have it both ends??

Last edited by Uncle Benz; 07-19-2015 at 03:10 PM.
Uncle Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Uncle Benz For This Useful Post:
GSpeed (07-20-2015)
Old 07-19-2015, 02:50 PM   #13
Teseo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Drives: frs
Location: Gunsai
Posts: 4,874
Thanks: 7,131
Thanked 2,919 Times in 1,767 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rice_classic View Post
Do it with OFT/RomRaider etc
Teseo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 04:17 PM   #14
IBill4You
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2015 Subaru BRZ
Location: Maryland
Posts: 197
Thanks: 463
Thanked 65 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Finally actual data rather than speculation. 0w20 fanboys can suck it
IBill4You is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quickie: 0w20 vs 5w20 / 5w30 empower-auto Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) 43 12-17-2016 01:54 PM
Oil 5w30 cooldandani Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) 26 05-27-2015 09:50 AM
UOA 5w30 Rocket.BRZ Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) 49 07-07-2014 11:29 PM
Where to buy Eneos 5w30? mswhong AUSTRALIA 0 03-26-2013 06:25 AM
DOT Crash Test (non) Data for FR-S/BRZ Dadhawk Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 15 03-24-2012 04:21 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.