does anyone know why GT86 weights so much?

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

So, does anyone know where the weight came from?

It's all perspective. Keep in mind that the Zx6 platform is currently the lightest rear-drive coupe in the US marketplace. There are a couple handfuls of cars that are lighter, but they're either no-longer-imported [Lotus Exige], smaller [Miata & Smart], or front-drive [MINI, 500, Mazda2, Fiesta, etc.]

So, why didn't they make the car 2200 lbs? Well, for one, cost. Toyota/Subaru have been adamant from the beginning they claim the car will be "affordable". That means cheap, existing technology, and no exotic materials. They broke us off an aluminum hood, and that's about it for snazzy materials. Another thing to consider is the car is using suspension from the much heavier Impreza [thus suitably more "heavy duty"], and the rear diff is also out of a much heavier Lexus [and Supra?]. These things aren't sized to an initial target weight like the Miata was, so right there the Zx6 is also at a weight disadvantage.

In this day and age, 2776 lbs is a decent weight. On paper it's close to the power-to-weight of the MINI JCW Coupe, but with rear-drive, rear seats, and a real trunk.

I think the weight is acceptable.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

WTF is wrong with you w/ the name calling, douchbag.

its just a question, jacka$$.

sorry i wasn't trying to be mean ill edit it ... :/


Edit: i felt like i was in that same group of people that asked about putting 87 octane in a car that requires 93...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

WTF is wrong with you w/ the name calling, douchbag.

its just a question, jacka$$.

You come off as more mature when you don't respond to the insult with an insult BTW.

The Civic has a smaller, probably lighter engine, smaller brakes, smaller wheels and smaller tires, likely lighter suspension components, lighter transaxle vs trans, driftshaft & diff configuration, etc.

We'd have to do component level measurements to determine exactly where the weight difference is, but what I just listed likely accounts for a large portion of it.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

You come off as more mature when you don't respond to the insult with an insult BTW.

The Civic has a smaller, probably lighter engine, smaller brakes, smaller wheels and smaller tires, likely lighter suspension components, lighter transaxle vs trans, driftshaft & diff configuration, etc.

We'd have to do component level measurements to determine exactly where the weight difference is, but what I just listed likely accounts for a large portion of it.

correct, but like stated above the new 2012 civic is 2900 lbs and the 86 is somewhere between 2600-2750 lbs

the 86 has a steel suspension, all the rwd components and can hold 4 people vs 5 in the civic and still comes in lighter than the civic

what ever the did, they did it right

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

traditionally, older japanese cars are made from paper thin metal, so thin that leaning against a fender could bend it!

Still are. I've got a dent on my WRX's fender to prove it.

[switchlanez]

You can't pinpoint where weight is gained/saved by direct comparison to any of those cars you listed because none of them have 4 seats and an FR coupe layout. The weight seems about right and reasonably light. An article (I think it was the latest Motor Trend article on the FR-S) stated the hood and trunk are aluminum. Also I think Subaru, unlike those other makes, puts rolled layers of steel in the chassis pillars (safety feature) which could add weight. It's been posted here before or you can google it.

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

It's all perspective. Keep in mind that the Zx6 platform is currently the lightest rear-drive coupe in the US marketplace. There are a couple handfuls of cars that are lighter, but they're either no-longer-imported [Lotus Exige], smaller [Miata & Smart], or front-drive [MINI, 500, Mazda2, Fiesta, etc.]

So, why didn't they make the car 2200 lbs? Well, for one, cost. Toyota/Subaru have been adamant from the beginning they claim the car will be "affordable". That means cheap, existing technology, and no exotic materials. They broke us off an aluminum hood, and that's about it for snazzy materials. Another thing to consider is the car is using suspension from the much heavier Impreza [thus suitably more "heavy duty"], and the rear diff is also out of a much heavier Lexus [and Supra?]. These things aren't sized to an initial target weight like the Miata was, so right there the Zx6 is also at a weight disadvantage.

In this day and age, 2776 lbs is a decent weight. On paper it's close to the power-to-weight of the MINI JCW Coupe, but with rear-drive, rear seats, and a real trunk.

I think the weight is acceptable.

that makes lots of sense. i wonder if the aftermarket companies will come up with products specifically addressing those issues.

[LSxJunkie]

A 2012 MX-5 Touring Hardtop (the only fair comparison because the FT86 has a fixed roof) weighs 2593 lbs. That's 107lbs less than what the the FT86 is supposed to weigh. Add back seat, trunk, the fact that it is actually a larger car.... done.

Originally Posted by 7thgear

mx5 doesn't come with a spare
it's smaller, period
shorter wheelbase = shorter driveshaft, less weight
maybe thinner/smaller axles?

MR2, (i don't know which year you're refering to) but you have to remember that mid engined cars don't have a driveshaft and a rear diff to carry, so you can make the ****pit more of a single bucket, stiffer while using less materials. Also remember that the exhaust is 1/4 the size on a mid engined car.

the rest of the cars really fall into the same group, but i'll mention that sheet metal thickness would play a huge role in determining the cars weight

1mm thicker X whole car = big weight.

traditionally, older japanese cars are made from paper thin metal, so thin that leaning against a fender could bend it!

Mid engine cars often still have a rear diff, but it's just bolted to the trans.

Originally Posted by 7thgear

not even licensing standards

somewhere around the mid 90's people got this idea that human life is somehow a billion times more valuable than it was before.

so rather than attribute the occasional car fatality to the shit-happens pile of global karma, they started building tanks and ruin the fun for a very small % of us.

but what can you do

Buy used.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

correct, but like stated above the new 2012 civic is 2900 lbs and the 86 is somewhere between 2600-2750 lbs

the 86 has a steel suspension, all the rwd components and can hold 4 people vs 5 in the civic and still comes in lighter than the civic

what ever the did, they did it right

The Civic DX (which he keeps referencing) is 2600lbs.

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

A 2012 MX-5 Touring Hardtop (the only fair comparison because the FT86 has a fixed roof) weighs 2593 lbs. That's 107lbs less than what the the FT86 is supposed to weigh. Add back seat, trunk, the fact that it is actually a larger car.... done.

now thats the number more or lesss to what im looking for.

a bigger car with about 50-60 lbs in seats, and 50-60lbs in increase in size makes sense.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by bFreed

Huh? Complaining about 26-2700 pounds now? Pull out the spare and hit the gym.

I need to do that...

Anyways, on-topic I just checked '12 Civic & what Honda site is saying 2608~2641 lbs (for sedan)... but did you look at other stuff like wheels? they're running 15's vs FRS/BRZ gonna be running 16's~17's, there's extra weight right there. Engine is 1.8L for civic vs FRS/BRZ is 2L, that's another extra weight. FF tranny vs FR tranny weight difference is big (specially coming from IS-F style tranny for Auto) which result stiffer chassis & tranny mounts & other stuff.

Now, if you just look as basic weight to weight only then yes, FRS/BRZ is heavier than some of the ones that you have listed... but look at other new FR sports cars coming out. They're much heavier than FRS/BRZ (except Mx5)

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The Civic DX (which he keeps referencing) is 2600lbs.

ya, the reason why i picked this reference becuase its new, coupe, and 4 seats. the engine is .2L smaller but the car is bigger, which i think its a even trade off.

[blu_]

This car is also pretty wide for its size. Its track is supposedly more than an e36 according to Vorschlag.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

not even licensing standards

somewhere around the mid 90's people got this idea that human life is somehow a billion times more valuable than it was before.

so rather than attribute the occasional car fatality to the shit-happens pile of global karma, they started building tanks and ruin the fun for a very small % of us.

but what can you do

Get a formula ford, motorcycle, caterham/lotus 7 type car, elise/exige, etc.

Or accept one of these cars as a hopefully good compromise between fun and practical.