|
Software Tuning Discuss all software tuning topics. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
07-27-2017, 06:15 AM | #15 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Europe
Posts: 919
Thanks: 369
Thanked 554 Times in 301 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
I could imagine though, that the heating up of combustion chambers and pistons is a factor. As well a previous smaller knock events may contribute to rising temps and cause even further heating then more knock in a chain reaction. That our oil temps rise too along with the internals of the engine is given since both are dependant on how hard you run the engine. It doesn't mean that oil temp in itself is causing the knock. Quote:
First at 17 C IAT (62 F) 5th gear and second at 34 C IAT (93 F) 4th gear only. The particular tune had TCPC enabled. Notice that the 17 C pull has 11ish AFR vs 11.5. Guess which FLKC more at the relevant area... 17 C, 5th: 34 C, 4th: Quote:
You are of course right that it sits way longer at higher rpm in a higher gear. Whether it causes the exhaust to "pile up" as you suggest or simply just adds more heat is a good question, relevant to how to tune it. Since it doesn't FLKC significantly in the colder 5th gear run, I would assume the flow if the header is not the restriction, but rather it's a heat issue. Thanks for suggesting it anyway, as it helped to get my thoughts focused. So far I can see the following things to try out: - Reintroduce TCPC Maybe it's there to manage heat? - Run richer. Maybe it's for cooling that the stock POL dips into AFR 10s above 6800 rpm? - Add more IAT timing compensation above 20 C IAT. If nothing works, then I'll do as you say and remove 2 deg timing and then upgrade to Ecutek at some point.
__________________
|
||||
The Following User Says Thank You to Tor For This Useful Post: | solidONE (07-29-2017) |
07-27-2017, 07:53 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: Toyota 86 GTS
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,129
Thanks: 453
Thanked 895 Times in 424 Posts
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I thought you had a hollowed out stock header for "emissions".
But regardless of stock or UEL, neither match EL above 7k. I seriously wouldn't even worry about it. People thrash these cars on track all the time. Let the ECU do its job and pull the timing, that's what it's programmed to do. old: http://datazap.me/u/wayne/stg2-ace-9...0&data=2-19-27 older: http://datazap.me/u/wayne/bpb-98-v92...0&data=2-12-15 older: http://datazap.me/u/wayne/bpb-v87lea...0&data=2-11-14 |
07-27-2017, 12:02 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Europe
Posts: 919
Thanks: 369
Thanked 554 Times in 301 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
I get worse FLKC than all those logs, and I wasn't even on track. The question is if the amount of FLKC equals the severity of the of the initial knock that triggered it. Or if duration etc. plays a part in how much the ECU applies. I would prefer not to have a severe knock event initially every time I go to 4th/5th gear and until the ECU pulls the timing. I suppose the ECU clears the corrections if getting a clean run in lower gears and would then have to reapply the correction next time going into 4th/5th. Hence, the question "how much is too much"? But I guess it's an open question that only Subaru (or a blown engine) would reveal. And probably each has to answer for themselves. Also if I can make changes that make it pull less I have more power obviously. So maybe it's worth sacrificing a bit performance in lower gears to get more power in the higher ones.
__________________
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tor For This Useful Post: | Ultramaroon (07-27-2017), Vin (07-27-2017) |
07-27-2017, 12:59 PM | #18 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
@Tor
Bit of lateral thinking be good if we had a cat temp vs load/timing table but we don't unless we go ecutek. But maybe we can use coolant temp. The knock seems to get worse as coolant temps exceed about 87 degrees. We could use the ECT vs timing retard table to retard timing at all rpm if coolant exceeds 88. but that a bit crude. but I think you said you had zeroed out the per cylinder timing comp tables. now their is a coolant temp threshold for activation of the per cylinder timing compensation tables it set to 60 degrees so if we set that to say 88 so per cylinder timing comp only active above 88 degrees coolant temp Then we can populate the per cylinder comp tables a/b/c/d to just pull timing at loads over 1.1 rpm over 6000. so then it will only pull timing id Coolant over 88 load over 1.1 and rpm over 6000 and you could adjust the timing pulled based on all three parameters you could do a bit of axis rescaling on those comp tables to suit you better |
The Following User Says Thank You to steve99 For This Useful Post: | Vin (07-27-2017) |
07-27-2017, 04:18 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: Sask., Canada
Posts: 250
Thanks: 84
Thanked 89 Times in 55 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
I like the idea of using some sort of temperature feedback to retard timing, maybe coolant temp is sensitive enough for this. My point with the oil temp is that it reliably indicates for me a "hot" engine, but obviously high oil temperature is not causal to knock.
Ideally we would have cylinder head temperature sensorst, but in lieu of them perhaps coolant temp can be used, the tables are already set up for this. The question is that of sensitivity, does coolant temp increase enough on track to reliably be used as an ignition scaler? I never bothered to log it on track since I was never concerned about it NA. @steve99, is 88C a number you've seen in logs? |
07-27-2017, 06:16 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Europe
Posts: 919
Thanks: 369
Thanked 554 Times in 301 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
It an interesting idea, but unfortunately I think there are too many factors influencing ECT and the variations are too small. It also seems there is a delay and it might apply the retard too late.
Eg. standing at a light (with fans running): Or driving at high speed: I think it's likely that you end up having retard when not desired and probably also it won't retard when it is desired. Setting it at 89 would probably also mean that you have the retard on all the time on track anyway and you might as well just remove it directly in Base Timing B. For me it's not so much about street vs track. I don't mind running a track tune permanently. What I am trying to avoid is to sacrifice performance in 2nd and 3rd gear, that I could otherwise be running without problems even on track. 15 mins track: Probably Wayno is right, just to leave it to the ECU. Or pull a bit and let the ECU handle some. I don't expect it to be FLKC free at all, I just think these were rather high levels (not this track log above, but the Autobahn log in the first post).
__________________
|
07-27-2017, 06:33 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: UK GT86
Location: UK
Posts: 3,040
Thanks: 185
Thanked 1,629 Times in 1,112 Posts
Mentioned: 155 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
If you go on Romraider, when they mention a lot of pulled timing they are on about 3+ degrees A degree or so here and there is just the ECU doing it's job. If you want to try the PCC timing changes then maybe look at the MY17 for examples. It may be that certain cylinders are getting hotter 1st. Shame you can't add fuel to those specific cylinders too. Or view the knock input with regard to each cylinder.
Are you really going to notice a couple less HP in low gears? I would imagine not. Might drop your 0-60 time by 0.05 seconds..... If you really want to try correlating data then you need to combine as many varied logs as you can and throw them into a tool with various filters etc. I know Vgi's tool can manage 20MB of data with no issue, Viperdata is also good for that.
__________________
.: Stealth 86 :.
Abbey Motorsport/K47 Tuned Sprintex 210 Supercharger Kodename 47 DJ: Soundcloud / Instagram / Facebook |
07-28-2017, 05:01 AM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Europe
Posts: 919
Thanks: 369
Thanked 554 Times in 301 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
I'll try these changes and see how it works:
__________________
|
|
07-28-2017, 07:37 AM | #23 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
If you made the same timing reduction on all four per cylinder comps and didnt increase the temp threshold then its probably easier to just pull the timing from base B. ??
|
07-28-2017, 07:39 AM | #24 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
|
|
07-28-2017, 07:32 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: Sask., Canada
Posts: 250
Thanks: 84
Thanked 89 Times in 55 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
|
07-28-2017, 07:51 PM | #26 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
|
07-29-2017, 04:08 AM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Europe
Posts: 919
Thanks: 369
Thanked 554 Times in 301 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Only on cylinder A+B, like the stock tune. I'll see if that helps first, but I am away for the weekend so it won't be until next week when time/work permits.
__________________
|
07-31-2017, 12:08 AM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Drives: FR-S Whiteout
Location: California
Posts: 2,863
Thanks: 1,808
Thanked 790 Times in 611 Posts
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I'm not sure if you are running an oil cooler, but check out @DarkSunrise's logs. I'm not sure how much ignition advance he is sacrificing for the sake of having a knock resistant tune for the track, but it pretty damn solid if you asked me. I think a big contributor to this is his track oil temps. "Dem oil temps" "Dat knock resistance"
Track Data Log thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108142
__________________
Intent > Content
cowardice is the mother of cruelty. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
High performance Vortech at track | Sonolin | Forced Induction | 41 | 03-18-2016 07:19 PM |
High negative FLKC values on the highway | RIP.S2000 | Software Tuning | 4 | 12-18-2015 10:36 PM |
Anybody change rear gears or trans gears yet? | ramosryan | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 2 | 06-13-2014 12:48 AM |
Acceptable helmet suggestions. | jadewbj | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 40 | 10-03-2012 03:59 PM |
High Plains Raceway track day | Rejor11 | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 4 | 08-21-2012 09:02 AM |