SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Locust]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

If they bump the ND to BS or AS Rick will take note of that and not totally screw over CS

And if the ND stays in CS it will make CS have a harder index than BS and an index on even footing with AS. Previous generation Miata, 350Z, and RX-8 will be so horribly screwed that all those people will have to sell their cars or just not race in CS anymore.

[TEAMETR]

So when are we all sending in letters? Any best time? I've got someone running this Sunday at a local event 2016 MX5 with RE71R tires and front sway bar in CS good driver can't wait to see one run.

[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by TEAMETR

So when are we all sending in letters? Any best time? I've got someone running this Sunday at a local event 2016 MX5 with RE71R tires and front sway bar in CS good driver can't wait to see one run.

Sooner is better as they are likely to finalize the street class moves pretty soon so people can plan for next year.

Personally I'm ok if they leave us in CS because the Miata RF has caught my eye lately and that would be a good excuse ;P... might write a letter to move the FR-S into DSP though, that looks like a fun class and I don't think we are far off the RX-8 performance wise in DSP trim

[xwd]

I'd be really surprised to see any changes for next year. I think a classing change is in store for 2018 maybe moving the C5 Vette out of BS and then it gives a place for the 370Z/ND/S2000 to compete.

I know some who were going to do the ND have backed off due to the transmission issues, but apparently Mazda is going to come out with a fix for that soon.

Most of the letters I saw around the BRZ/non-TRD moving to DS were not in support of it either, so I would be surprised to see it happen.

[gtslow]

I put in a letter but I doubt we will see any action either. While averages tell one story, the top ND Miata at nationals wouldn't have trophied in BS and was seconds off from a trophy in AS. I haven't been in this game as long as many of you, but random googling shows this sort of conversation happening every year with different cars. It seems like the SCCA just doesn't have enough time to create completely fair classes and there are always going to be cars that are just better in a specific class. Given the miata's years of dominance in autocross I doubt they are going to poo poo on it and move it to BS. I'm guessing that the SCCA (and more importantly sponsors) would rather it continue to dominate the classes that it participates in.

On the upside at least STR isn't an S2000 only class anymore ;-). That class seems to be pretty balanced between the ND and the S2K.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by gtslow

the top ND Miata at nationals wouldn't have trophied in BS and was seconds off from a trophy in AS.

That's because we ran in the rain on Wednesday when everyone else ran in the dry. Don't take final results into consideration. It's the Tuesday results that really stand out.

[Locust]

Okay I had a chat with an SEB member and I'm told that if you're going to send in a letter you need to do it ASAP. I'll try to carve out some time to look at more of the data this weekend but from what I was told it's highly likely the FR-S/BRZ get moved to DS since DS isn't a very popular class. Looking at championship tour results there was even a tour where there wasn't a D-Street class at all.

Basically the gist of it is that as long as the ND Miata and the twins have a class to compete in where they aren't getting blown away by another car they consider that acceptable because participation for those models is so high that they take priority over other, less popular cars.

[Icecreamtruk]

Nub question here, as I dont autoX but I've kind of followed the conversation here. Is the new mx-5 so freakishly fast in autoX that the twins dont stand a chance no matter what? I participate in time trials (or time attack, whichever name you prefer) and we use a system based on weight/power +/- mods +/- tires so its fairly even, altho I have to say old mx-5 are usually at the top of their classes (and they spawn from the slowest class, to the second fastest class).

I guess my question is more like, what decides what group a car is supposed to be in?

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by Locust

Okay I had a chat with an SEB member and I'm told that if you're going to send in a letter you need to do it ASAP. I'll try to carve out some time to look at more of the data this weekend but from what I was told it's highly likely the FR-S/BRZ get moved to DS since DS isn't a very popular class. Looking at championship tour results there was even a tour where there wasn't a D-Street class at all.

Wait, does this include trd frs as well? DS is fairly big with the WRX crowd. They had 31 cars and mostly WRX. Other than Ogburn, the east course times are close though.

[86_Freak]

I hope they don't move the FR-S to DS just so it makes my decision easier to go back to KM.

But seriously, the explanation from the SEB member makes sense. Why would you want to bury a car that brings in a large amount of participation? I would imagine that instead of having CS at 86 drivers and DS at 31 drivers, you'll probably get them more even and have ~60 drivers in each class if the Twin is moved to DS.

[MarkR171]

I ran the numbers for the top 5 drivers of every car in C-Street as well as the top 5s in AS, BS, and DS.

To me, it would be best to bump the ND to BS. If they want the ND to be THE car to have in a class, it still looks like they would be quick in BS. The top three NDs would have been the quickest car on the east course in BS, and their average time is quicker than the average time of the top 5 BS cars. The gap is closer than the gap with the FR-S though.

I also think that the Subaru BRZ (without TRD parts) should go to DS. There were only 6 BRZs in a C-Street class of 86 cars, compared to 35 FR-S. That shows that BRZ owners are being pushed out of Street class. The top two out of the 6 would have been right in the middle of the top 5 cars in D-Street, so it should be a great match allowing D-Street to grow and BRZ owners to stay in Street class. To make it easy on classing, the Scion FR-S should stay in C-Street, TRD parts or not. Yes they're essentially the same car, but they're not when it comes to rules. So the car that doesn't have the option of TRD parts should be classed lower while the car that does have the option should stay in C-Street.

If ND goes to BS and BRZ goes to DS, we could be looking at an even number of drivers (roughly 50-60) in each class. Making the classes diverse and more competitive.

[MarkR171]

The problem with ND > BS and BRZ > DS both means that CS becomes Spec-FRS as the other cars aren't really on pace either. If the FRS goes to DS, the WRX will be outpaced on average, but that average is only that way because of Ogburn. Take out Ogburn and the FRS fits right in with the WRX in DS.

...so maybe twins to DS isn't a bad solution either.


Edit: But if you take out Ogburn, the FRS fits just fine in CS too! So I think ND > BS and BRZ > DS is the best (albeit unlikely) solution.

[simpleisbest]

Data values for BRZ, 350Z, and RX8 will be off, as just the perceived performance of the TRD parts will make the FRS more attractive to top competitive drivers.

The BRZ is is not 2secs slower than the TRD FR-S.....what you are seeing is more of a gap in driver skill vs gap in vehicle performance.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

The problem with ND > BS and BRZ > DS both means that CS becomes Spec-FRS as the other cars aren't really on pace either. If the FRS goes to DS, the WRX will be outpaced on average, but that average is only that way because of Ogburn. Take out Ogburn and the FRS fits right in with the WRX in DS.

...so maybe twins to DS isn't a bad solution either.


Edit: But if you take out Ogburn, the FRS fits just fine in CS too! So I think ND > BS and BRZ > DS is the best (albeit unlikely) solution.

To avoid CS becoming a spec TRD class, are there any cars in BS that are slow enough to drop to CS?