Stock ride height or lower?

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by fatoni

miatas with 225s (nt01 or rs3) are faster on a 9" rim than a 8" rim. period. thats counterintuitive to your theories. and if thats the case, i couldnt imagine why a 245 would be faster on an 8" rim than a 9" rim. and the way you are talking about rims and tires is a little misleading at least in my opinion. you pick a tire size you want to run and then you find the best rim to suit your needs so puttin 285s on a huge rim for grip or a 245 on a small rim to save weight isnt holding any value becasue they are conflicting statements in themselves if you are trying to tell me that both big and small wheels are faster

suspension geometry plays a huge factor in this as well...especially since tires and wheels are part of this equation.

but before you guys go further, i suggest you guys create a new thread for Tire Selection for motorsports. As to not muddy up the thread too much by going too far off topic....

thanks!

-Josh

[S2kphile]

Stock. The way it was designed to be.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

suspension geometry plays a huge factor in this as well...especially since tires and wheels are part of this equation.

but before you guys go further, i suggest you guys create a new thread for Tire Selection for motorsports. As to not muddy up the thread too much by going too far off topic....

thanks!

-Josh

LOL. Agreed...

[SpeedR]

Originally Posted by fatoni

terms like cambered out and tuckin tire and stretching tires scream image without regard to performance so you are right in expecting it

Yes :happy0180:

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

There is no functional benefit to stretched tires. Period. If your setup is safe and you're happy with it, good for you. However, a 245 on an 8" wheel and a 245 on a 10" wheel do the same thing. You'll actually get more traction out of the 8" wheel set up.

I think a modest drop and lower offset wheels would be nice.


This is as low as I would ever go on offset, and that's only if I lived in a state with great roads. And that car is actually a little too low for my tastes. I'd bring it up half an inch.

However, more realistically, this is ideal.

Yes

Originally Posted by fatoni

yes there is. period. i would imagine 245s are faster on the 10" simply because i know that 225s are faster on a 9" over the 8". and that isnt even considering what it would do for the response and crispness of turn in. but im also pretty sure that isnt very stretched since 245 should come out to be just under 10". i agree with your point but not so much the example i guess

Sorry NO

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

more response in terms of tire performance doesn't mean better performance, although it can at times.

Its true that when you have less sidewall flex the response from the steering becomes sharper, but at the cost of what? Which by nature, proper traction is more associated with performance and it reduces with less contact patch from stretched tires.

With less than ideal sidewall you start to run into many problems. Which isn't an issue for people with show cars, because frankly they aren't really using the tires for anything other than rolling around. But for motorsports function is everything (obviously).

also..Iv had better results on my rx7 with 17s than with 18s on the same aspect ratio.

Yes

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd like to see evidence.

You have the most contact patch at a specific wheel width. For 245/45/17s that 8.0". For 245/40/17 that is 8.5".

For 225/45/17 it's 7.5"

I know many people here know this stuff more than those idiots who engineer the tires.. but I'd like to see proof. (yes that was somewhat sarcastic)

I agree with the response, stretched tires FEEL faster and have better response because the sidewall flex is reduced by stretching. That doesn't mean they'll set a faster laptime though.

Yes

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

This.
They're really not faster. Period. Read up on slip angle and it's effect on handling and maximum grip. Stretched tires, like putting a 245 on a 10" wheel, mean that the sidewall does not give at all. That's great for steering feel. That's NOT great for handling. Plus you can fit a 285 on a 10" wheel and have that much more tire. Or you can put a 245 on an 8" wheel and have that much less weight.

Yes

Important info above ^
Please don’t kill a car that is all about handling by not having a clue about suspension, wheels or tires.
sorry

[EJ20]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Thats what she said??

I wish if I can go lower, but roads in middle east are plain stupid! Speed bumps have no proper spcifications in design! You see some with good slop and some are a stupidly huge that even with oem hight you'd still hear metal scraping

[Caliban]

gonna raise this shit 6" and put 24"s

[jedichimp]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Coilovers, rolled fenders, tires stretched, cambered out, tuckin tire front and rear.

Low is the way to go. Lemme get somebody who says my intentions are all form and no function so I can E-slap you in the face

^This. Needs a healthy drop/stance.

[MRZ415]

I say LEAVE it STOCK ... I have coils on my current car ..
I look more flush ... but it comes at a price ... I have to drive
SLOW because I am LOW.

Maybe I am just getting old ... but I like the agility of my stock
suspension ... sure I can take a corner hard .. but if I take it too hard
my tires rub my fenders(which btw is already ROLLED))

[#87]

Originally Posted by MRZ415

I say LEAVE it STOCK ... I have coils on my current car ..
I look more flush ... but it comes at a price ... I have to drive
SLOW because I am LOW.

Maybe I am just getting old ... but I like the agility of my stock
suspension ... sure I can take a corner hard .. but if I take it too hard
my tires rub my fenders(which btw is already ROLLED))

I think in that case you are doing it wrong. If you do a proper street setup the only thing you should have to drive slower than a stock for are speed bumps, excessively damaged roads, and snow. And you definitely should not be rubbing.

[Asphalt]

what about lowering springs? we don't even know if scion will offer a rebranded coil over set up....if they do we don't know how much $$. my question is: would getting lowering springs affect the handling of the car much? I'm not looking into improving the handling with lowering springs (i wouldn't imagine it would much anyway) but am rather more concerned if it hinders the handling? any thoughts?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Asphalt

what about lowering springs? we don't even know if scion will offer a rebranded coil over set up....if they do we don't know how much $$. my question is: would getting lowering springs affect the handling of the car much? I'm not looking into improving the handling with lowering springs (i wouldn't imagine it would much anyway) but am rather more concerned if it hinders the handling? any thoughts?

It all depends on the springs. I wouldn't get springs lower than 1 inch. Plus they need to come with different bump stops.

[Ryephile]

Taking suspension stroke and geometry out of the equation for a minute, the FR-S and BRZ I saw at NAIAS looked off-balance with their excessive wheel gap and high offset wheels. [like a stock 370Z, MINI, Mustang, etc.] We all know that "wheel gap kills", so the 86 needs to be lowered an inch or two to have a good stance.

Back to reality though, the suspension will have to be measured and modeled to determine how much lowering is acceptable before ruining the handling [for those of us that care about handling and aren't slaves to "stance"]. Hopefully there's a happy medium where the stance can look good and balanced and the handling is in its sweet spot.

Obviously, lowering springs are a stupid idea, as they reduce compression travel. The hunt will begin for coilovers with same-as-stock total stroke, with appropriate compression and rebound stroke at the desired ride height. KW is historically very good with this, but obviously they're not the only player. I very much like the Nitron's on my Lotus, and since a local race shop is a rebuilder, I would love to see Nitron release a set of Singles tuned for fast-street use on summer tires.

[Asphalt]

if lowering springs lower the compression travel (making a stiffer ride? is this more ideal of track driving?) how are lowering springs different from an adjusted,stiff coil over set up?

sorry i don't have experience with coilovers...im assuming stiffness or compression travel can be adjusted independently of ride height.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Asphalt

if lowering springs lower the compression travel (making a stiffer ride? is this more ideal of track driving?) how are lowering springs different from an adjusted,stiff coil over set up?

sorry i don't have experience with coilovers...im assuming stiffness or compression travel can be adjusted independently of ride height.

for starters, a lowering spring may or may not be too stiff for the stock shocks to handle. decent coilovers also typically come with components that are designed for eachother. they can also allow you to adjust ride height without compromising suspension travel. with lowering springs you run the risk of throwing away useable suspension travel for abusing your bumpstops all in the name of looking cool. while lowering springs arent always a bad thing, it seems like a waste of money if you ever decide to do things right. take that money and buy some tires. that will be a much more cost effective improvement